FBI director forming group to study gun law

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http://www.newsday.com/news/local/w...,97809,print.story?coll=ny-region-apnewjersey

FBI director forming group to study gun law



By DONNA DE LA CRUZ
Associated Press Writer

March 24, 2005, 2:51 PM EST

WASHINGTON -- FBI Director Robert Mueller is forming a study group to review the law that let suspected terrorists buy guns in the United States after they cleared background checks.

Mueller unveiled his plan to form the Justice Department working group, which will include the FBI, in a letter sent Wednesday to Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J. The group will also review the government report issued earlier this month that said more than 40 terror suspects were able to buy firearms in the United States last year because background checks showed they had no felony convictions and weren't illegal immigrants.

The day the Government Accountability Office report was released, Mueller told a House subcommittee that perhaps the law could be altered. In his letter to Lautenberg, Mueller said "I believe a review of the law regarding the National Instant Criminal Background Check System is warranted given the findings of the GAO report."

The DOJ's Office of Legal Policy will spearhead the review, and will make recommendations to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, Mueller wrote.

Lautenberg, who requested the GAO report, said Thursday that the "FBI knows that terrorist access to guns in our country is a real problem.

"Hopefully the FBI can talk some sense into the rest of the Bush administration and put the safety and security of the American people ahead of the interests of the gun lobby," Lautenberg said.

When the report was released, the National Rifle Association had said the law protects Americans from terrorists while allowing citizens the freedom to own guns. On Thursday, NRA spokeswoman Kelly Hobbs said the NRA worked last year with the Justice Department to ensure that people on the FBI's internal terror watch lists are cross-checked.

"We will certainly work with the Department of Justice, the (Bush) administration, and congressional leaders to review the information and address terrorism concerns while remembering our core mission to protect the rights of law-abiding Americans," Hobbs said.

The GAO report said that from Feb. 3 through June 20 last year, 35 known or suspected terrorists bought guns in the United States. From July 1 to Oct. 31 last year, 12 more were allowed to buy firearms.

___

On the Net:

Justice Department: http://www.justice.gov

FBI: http://www.fbi.gov

NRA: http://www.nra.org

Copyright © 2005, The Associated Press
 
I saw this on TV today, and it's got me worried. Shakespeare said "Security is chief ill of mankind," and I think that was a rather profound statement. The worst damage done by the terrorists of 9/11 may be yet to come, and I think part of that damage could be done to our RKBA on pretexts like these.
 
they had no felony convictions and weren't illegal immigrants.

So we're going to modify the law to ban firearms from felons, illegal immigrants and people that might have some tie with terrorism but have committed no crimes.
 
I would agree with the nonimmagrant alien ban. But being realistic, are we to believe that they can't use straw purchases? Or what about buying from the good old thrify nickle paper. If push comes to shove, they'll just smuggle their gear in. Don't get me wrong, I don't want the Terrs getting guns, but to imply that dealers who adhered to the NICS protocal and got a "proceed" response did something wrong is crap.
 
Well it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out all through history criminals have figured out ways to secure what they want - no matter the law.

Meanwhile honest citizens have more and more restrictions bestowed upon THEM.

Good example that occured yesterday-

Now I have two CCW permits, meaning I have had background checks. Allergies acting up - I went to buy Sudaphed yesteday. Two other fellows standing there with me also needing to buy Sudaphed - waiting to show DLs, and sign the Pharmacy Logbook. One is a LEO, in uniform, the other is the Pharmacist's son...a Fireman, wearing a FD T shirt.

I wonder how many Sudapheds the Meth guys secured yesterday and didn't have to show ID and sign logbooks... :scrutiny:

This kind of thinking and Law is NOT about Guns,or Meth - It is about Control, pure and simple.
 
Anybets on how long it takes before the majority of us here at THL, TFL, glocktalk, frugalsquirrels, etc etc are put on the watch list?

This isn't about safety. This isn't about security.

This is another method of gun control that can be passed by going around Congress and the President. It is a method to bypass the politics, since that has failed the antis over the last few years.

This is even more sinister than an executive order.

I.G.B.
 
I'm writing the Whitehouse and my congressman demanding Muellers resignation :fire: . This is the most un-American, un-Constitutional thing to come out of Washington yet. :banghead:

We have a list of people who are somehow associated with terrorists, yet no one (the people) can see the list, no one knows how one gets on the list and no one knows how one gets off the list. We're going to start denying people their constitutional rights based on the actions of some faceless, nameless intel analyst at one of many agencies who collect data and forward it to whoever keeps this secret list.

If anyone thinks it'll stop there, they are crazy. There is a local attorney who has a similar name to someone on the list, he's trying to sue the government to get some remedy because he's been effectively denied the use of airline transportation.

What's next? Internal passports? People on the watch list can't leave the state they are in?

And just how the heck did the GAO conduct this audit. I thought that under the Bush/Ashcroft administration that the NICS records were being destroyed as required by law? So did these people all buy guns during one 24 hour period?

Jeff
 
I wonder how many Sudapheds the Meth guys secured yesterday and didn't have to show ID and sign logbooks...

If they live in Ohio and went to WallyWorld, as much as they could carry out.

Anybets on how long it takes before the majority of us here at THL, TFL, glocktalk, frugalsquirrels, etc etc are put on the watch list?

Why would you think you aren't already a person of interest? Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean someone isn't watching you. :what:
 
Why not simply require that one be a US citizen to buy a firearm in the US. If immigrants want'em let them go back to from whence they came to get them.

Legal immigrants are one of America's greatest strengths. Treating them as pariahs would be altogether the wrong thing to do.
 
What bugs me isn't that 35 suspected terrorists bought guns, its that there are 35 suspected terrorist and they have not been charged/depoted or whatever.

:banghead:
 
I've had a chance to cool off and clear my head some. I am QUITE angered - yet again by Gov't Meddlin'.

This is the most un-American, un-Constitutional thing to come out of Washington yet.
- Yes Sir, except I used plenty of expletives when I thought the same thought.

We have a list of people who are somehow associated with terrorists, yet no one (the people) can see the list, no one knows how one gets on the list and no one knows how one gets off the list. We're going to start denying people their constitutional rights based on the actions of some faceless, nameless intel analyst at one of many agencies who collect data and forward it to whoever keeps this secret list
-This has been going on for some time. Started small and HIDING under Titles to rationalize the need to Society. Then once the folks whom wish to Control Society - gained the "acceptance" of such methods of lying to Society - Mob Mentality kicked in - and Support for all the "touchy feel good " enactments started snowballing.

The media, I honestly feel sometimes like Tass News Service is "telling folks" what the Gummit wants them to hear, and see.

I feel very sure there are "analysts" that do not believe in Gov't Meddlin". I pray like hell we have some "analysts" that respect the Constitution, and fight such invasion of privacy and erosion of rights. I know damn well some of the "concerns" I want to be involved in when I finally get all these IT classes finished and out of College.

I am sick and tired of being sick and tired about the erosion of Freedoms I have seen in my almost 50 yrs of living. I better appreciate what my elders and mentors "griped" and "warned" about.

Am I on a list? Yep. Two CCW permits I'm sure put me on a list. Being a victim of ID will do it. Ironic that a Gov't document with MY SSN is used to steal my ID, stolen from my mailbox . My SSN card has printed "not for Identification purposes". I am the one going through hell and difficulties, I am the one the Gov't (Fed, State, County) is "watching". I am the one being red- flagged for paying cash for stuff. Hey Big Brother, you screwed me, I didn't have some accounts for a bit, had to get another checking account and such and this time I had to do the paper drill for the Patriot Act. None of your damn business if I did have cash in a lockbox, or in a Hills Bros Coffee can ...I needed to eat, pay bills, and gas up my truck.

Legal immigrants are one of America's greatest strengths. Treating them as pariahs would be altogether the wrong thing to do.

Damn right they are.
Amongst other examples: I have / had some great classmates who were legal Immigrants. It really has struck me how much these folks really appreciate Freedoms, how dear they cherish these Freedoms, how hard they do write letters, send emails, and fight to maintain these freedoms.

Had one young Lady, Give the class both barrels between the eyes about how whiney butted, blind as bat, stupid, how taken for granted these American Born classmates were. She made it very clear the "Utopia" these Classmates advocated, only was a "Utopia" for the Ones in Control. The rest of Society were just servants and sheep. She came for a Society where the Gov't kept tabs and protected the Society.

She made it very clear, she is learning to shoot, keeps a firearm loaded at all times without a gun lock and everything else opposite gun control.

" A garden hoe is a poor defensive weapon against the weapons of Utopia".

Another young lady I taught to shoot, and I was so proud to call her a friend when she lit into the classroom. Still is, and her shooting skills are great.

We can learn from History. We can be reminded by Legal Immigrants, and exchange students, how Freedoms slowley erode and one day folks wonder where they went.

Yes the Great Land of Opportunity - motto of Arkansas, now requires one to show a DL and limits the number of Sudaphed a person can buy. Same thing I used to buy OTC. At first it was paced behind the counter, and one had to ask for it. Now one has go through all this new hassle. This applies to some other OTC meds that "meth folks" have been known to use .

It all about control, this other stuff is bull chips.
 
We don't need a study of the gun laws. What we need is a study of (a) how the terrorists got to be in the USA at all; and then (b) why they didn't set off any red flags when they were submitted for NICS.

Moron.
 
NICS is only going to flag criminal records. If someone is on a super secret watch list it isn't crossed indexed to NICS. My question is why are they suspects? Suspects should be picked up and either cleared or detained.
 
Why not simply require that one be a US citizen to buy a firearm in the US. If immigrants want'em let them go back to from whence they came to get them.

I agree with StandingWolf's response and would add that there ARE US Citizens on the list as well. Which just makes the whole thing that much more bothersome.
 
“35 known or suspected terrorists bought gunsâ€

Now why would ANY known terrorists be in the country? Don't we have an all expenses paid vacation spot in Cuba for terrorists? Why aren't the "known" ones there enjoying the sunshine?

Lautenberg's name appeared in this article - he's out to screw us using this end around play. It could work. Probably our best bet is to let the NRA know that this isn't negotiable.
 
more than 40 terror suspects were able to buy firearms in the United States last year because background checks showed they had no felony convictions and weren't illegal immigrants.
Isn't this just evidence that GUN CONTROL DOESN'T WORK?
 
Papers, please.

So... you're telling me that a handful of people that committed no crimes had no trouble buying firearms. What exactly is the problem here?

Innocent until proven guilty. If a person is not convicted of a crime, they are innocent. I'm not a fan of this desire to start limiting the rights of "suspected" anybodies. What's next, Thoughtpolice?
 
Okay, this is going to far. What crime did they commit? What puts them on the list? If I'm denied a gun because of an NICS check that flags me as a "terror suspect", how do I find out? You can BET that if I'm denied a gun purchase (never even been pulled over), I'm going to find out why.

Honestly though, this opens up a major legal precedent for verifying the 2nd Amendment in court. To put it simply, this would be the federal government directly infringing on a citizen's right to keep and bear arms. Sounds like exactly the kind of thing the Supreme Court would have to address.
 
Anybets on how long it takes before the majority of us here at THL, TFL, glocktalk, frugalsquirrels, etc etc are put on the watch list?

If Hillary is elected in 2008, how about the day after Inauguration Day?

Our psych teachers have lied to us for decades. Contrary to their teachings, the most basic human motivation is NOT sex, but control of others.
 
Quote:
March 24, 2005, 2:51 PM EST

WASHINGTON -- FBI Director Robert Mueller is forming a study group to review the law that let suspected terrorists buy guns in the United States after they cleared background checks.

How are "suspected terrorists" allowed in the U.S. to begin with?
You either are a terrorist or your not. You either have rights or you don't! :confused:
 
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