FBI suggests Congress ban gun sales to terrorism suspects
- Thread starter Desertdog
- Start date
- Status
Hold it. This reeks.
How did they conduct this audit? Are they (still) not destroying NICS check records like they're supposed to? Have they resorted to a routine rounding up of 4473s in order to enter them all into some database-in-the-sky?
Henry Bowman
Senior Member
Sure looks that way. Why aren't the media or Congress asking this question? Oh yeah. Never mind.
We've been sliding down the slippery slope so long we think we're on an amusment park ride. The coaster cars are shaped like handbaskets and it keeps getting hotter. Nothing to fear. Keep your safety belts buckeled and your arms and hands inside.
Numbers off...
Old Fuff stated that "the watch list, called the Violent Gang and Terrorist Organization File, is the FBI's clearinghouse for thousands of people of interest to the government" . This article states there are 13 million people on the list...not a few thousand.
migoi
Old Fuff stated that "the watch list, called the Violent Gang and Terrorist Organization File, is the FBI's clearinghouse for thousands of people of interest to the government" . This article states there are 13 million people on the list...not a few thousand.
migoi
Says like the makings of a lovely class action lawsuit if this were to happen.
The FBI is essentially asking for permission to deny up to 13 million (a lot would be denied anyway as many on suspected of terrorism links already have criminal records) the opportunity to purchase a firearm. They would have to deny them all, or risk accusations of discrimination when a white supremacist got a weapon and someone linked to Al-Queda didn't.
Such mass denials stink horribly to judges, regardless of their feelings concerning the issue. It's an inherent violation of due process to deny in this way, especially when there's no way to get of the list.
The FBI is essentially asking for permission to deny up to 13 million (a lot would be denied anyway as many on suspected of terrorism links already have criminal records) the opportunity to purchase a firearm. They would have to deny them all, or risk accusations of discrimination when a white supremacist got a weapon and someone linked to Al-Queda didn't.
Such mass denials stink horribly to judges, regardless of their feelings concerning the issue. It's an inherent violation of due process to deny in this way, especially when there's no way to get of the list.
From US Newswire:
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=44113
Wayne LaPierre:
Brady "Translation"
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=44113
Wayne LaPierre:
Brady "Translation"
TrybalRage
Member
You know, I have to agree. The current policies do benefit criminals.
Criminals dont get background checks.
Criminals dont care about banned weapons.
And when oh when will this Lautenberg jackass get voted into unemployment? I'm sick of reading about him.
scout26
Member
HOLY $nickeys, 13 million out of 280 million people in the US are on the watch list !!! That's rougly 5% of the population !!!! And no way to know if you on the list or any process to get off of it. 
And out of those 13 million only 47 bought guns, legally. Thats .00036%, which also means that 12,999,953 people on the watch list did not buy guns. Yep, someone is keeping NICS records after they're supposed to be destroyed. :banghead:
Should it be called the "Untermenchen und other Potential Undesirables" list ???
I guess this post probably just put me on the list.
204 degrees and climbing.
And out of those 13 million only 47 bought guns, legally. Thats .00036%, which also means that 12,999,953 people on the watch list did not buy guns. Yep, someone is keeping NICS records after they're supposed to be destroyed. :banghead:
Should it be called the "Untermenchen und other Potential Undesirables" list ???
I guess this post probably just put me on the list.
204 degrees and climbing.
dustind
Member
Because the people that are running it are idiots who put people on lists at the drop of a hat and do not do any quality control checking.
Brett Bellmore
Member
"And out of those 13 million only 47 bought guns, legally."
The media are horrible at explaining just about any kind of research study. They're not only generally ignorant of a wide range of subjects, they're also so certain that a journalism degree allows you to explain ANYTHING, that they don't bother letting somebody who DOES understand what they're reporting on look at the copy before it's published.
I would guess that what they really did was to cross check incoming NICS requests (Or a representative sample of them.) against the watch list, for maybe a week or so, and the reporter doesn't understand the difference between "47 people did X" and "here's a list of 47 people who did X".
At least, they could do the study that way without violating the 24 hour rule.
When I read a news report on somebody doing something that's obviously moronic, I always try to remember that it might be the guy writing the report who's the moron.
The media are horrible at explaining just about any kind of research study. They're not only generally ignorant of a wide range of subjects, they're also so certain that a journalism degree allows you to explain ANYTHING, that they don't bother letting somebody who DOES understand what they're reporting on look at the copy before it's published.
I would guess that what they really did was to cross check incoming NICS requests (Or a representative sample of them.) against the watch list, for maybe a week or so, and the reporter doesn't understand the difference between "47 people did X" and "here's a list of 47 people who did X".
At least, they could do the study that way without violating the 24 hour rule.
When I read a news report on somebody doing something that's obviously moronic, I always try to remember that it might be the guy writing the report who's the moron.
spartacus2002
Member
Don't you know we're at war? We're either with us-- or we're against us, and I think I know where YOU fall on that issue, buddy boy! (that's sarcasm)
Yeah, that's when all the people who tell us to quit whining about the PATRIOT Act will start screeching about their freedom the most.
artherd
member
Guess what everybody? We're ALL on this dread secret 'list'.
I'm sure I'm on it, and many others.
I'm sure I'm on it, and many others.
cslinger
Member
Great. So they are ok to pay taxes but not ok to defend themselves. Do you know that it takes 3-5 years to get citizenship? Will you be protecting me until then?
Oh, wait, let me guess, the next logical step would be to only sell to those who were born here, not anyone naturalized.
P. S. OK, I think it's contagious, I just posted as my husband. I have been making fun of him all day yesterday for posting as me.
Sheslinger.
nygunguy
Member
Which is Worse
The possibility of a terrorist purchasing a gun at the local Dick's Sporting Goods store.
Or...
The possibility of innocent citizens being put on the watch list because of something they say, write, do or own that is not favorable to some government official.
Think of the politicians who would at their first opportunity declare the NRA and/or GOA terrorist organizations?
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Slavery has so frightful an aspect to men accustomed to freedom, that it must steal in upon them by degrees and must disguise itself in a thousand shapes in order to be received."
--- David Hume, 1742
The possibility of a terrorist purchasing a gun at the local Dick's Sporting Goods store.
Or...
The possibility of innocent citizens being put on the watch list because of something they say, write, do or own that is not favorable to some government official.
Think of the politicians who would at their first opportunity declare the NRA and/or GOA terrorist organizations?
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Slavery has so frightful an aspect to men accustomed to freedom, that it must steal in upon them by degrees and must disguise itself in a thousand shapes in order to be received."
--- David Hume, 1742
Chipperman
Member
"Are we sure, though, that there's no way to find out if you're on one of these lists?"
Be careful! Asking if you are on the list is a quick way to get yourself put on the list.
Be careful! Asking if you are on the list is a quick way to get yourself put on the list.
Desertdog
Member
I just had a horrible thought; If instead of a "Terrorist List" they make and "Acceptable Citizen List" and don't tell us how to get on it?
Sindawe
Member
Frog. Pot. Water. Temp=95' C @ STP
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
I read a different article on the same subject which said that of the forty-some, only around 14 or so actually completed the purchases.
It's been a year or so, but I checked BATF records about new gun sales in the US: Roughly, five million per year for the previous 10 or 12 years.
So, out of five million sales, 14 were to Bad Guys.
That's better odds than criminal records for Congress.
Can I get on the list, Daddy?
, Art
It's been a year or so, but I checked BATF records about new gun sales in the US: Roughly, five million per year for the previous 10 or 12 years.
So, out of five million sales, 14 were to Bad Guys.
That's better odds than criminal records for Congress.
Can I get on the list, Daddy?
, Art- Status
