Federal Aid to Disaster Was Not Late

[Gewehr98]

Actually, anybody evidently *can* drive a school bus, for 300+ miles

So I don't buy the need for specialized drivers. The kid's considered a hero now, but look up the name Jabbar Gibson. He commandeered an empty NO school bus, filled it with refugees, and headed straight for Houston, stopping only for diesel on the way.

Here he is upon arrival at the Astrodome, with all of about 300 miles' worth of bus-driving experience:

Contrast that with the ramblings of Terry Ebbert, head of New Orleans' emergency operations. He watched the slow exodus from the Superdome on Thursday morning and said the Federal Emergency Management Agency response was inadequate. The chaos at the nearby New Orleans Convention Center was considerably worse than the Superdome, with an angry mob growing increasingly violent and few options for refugees to leave the scene.

"This is a national disgrace. FEMA has been here three days, yet there is no command and control," Ebbert said. "We can send massive amounts of aid to tsunami victims, but we can't bail out the city of New Orleans."

Umm, Mr. Ebbert, your job is to coordinate New Orleans' response to emergencies. You would do that by evacuating folks before the storm hit, when Mayor Nagin said "Get the hell out of Dodge", which I believe was what, Saturday?



One counts 255 buses in that one lot. That means at a capacity of 66 on board, 16,830 New Orleans residents could have been evacced out in one trip. Even if you have a lower capacity per bus, say 50 per bus, you're still getting nearly 13,000 out in one run. In an emergency mandatory evacuation, you could probably get away with putting more than 66 on each of those buses.

Here's another 13 buses, that could've been used to evacuate another 500-1000 people out of town before the storm hit:



Yes, before the storm hit.

Do you understand the problems if everyday people took off in those busses with 50 people in each of them and the hurricane missed New Orleans?

I understand that if one reads the city's disaster prep plans, they would have seen on page 13 of those plans that those buses should have been on the highways. I understand that tens of thousands of people, potentially 33,000+ people, would have been transported to safety further inland, at a rate of speed considerably faster than the hurricane's approach, regardless of where it finally hit, instead of sitting in their homes 6-12 feet below sea level, waiting to die while their city government tries to figure out which way was "up". And that's precisely what the New Orleans Mayor and Louisiana Governor were doing - an interview with Mayor Nagin states that while on board Air Force One with President Bush, Governor Blanco asked for an additional 24 hours to decide on whether she would request federal help. And as we all learned in school, the Federal Government, including FEMA, cannot move in and respond unless local and state governments request assistance first. (State's Rights and all that Constitutional Stuff...)

http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_2726584.shtml

 

[macavada]

No one is saying there is no blame for local and state government, but the aftermath, the lack of response, can only be attributed to the feds, given the requirements for the kind of response necessary in N.O. The devastation in Mississippi is not in question, however, the circumstances that had to be dealt with in the aftermath are different. How many helicopters did the governor of Mississipi need to mobilize to get people off of housetops? Did he have to get watercraft and amphibious vehicles to evacuate large numbers of people? Did he have to get provisions to them by air? The problems faced in N.O. were like no other either previously faced or planned for. And what did this administration do - run away and hide (while on vacation for a couple of more days).

 

[macavada]

Enough with the buses already. The issue is the failure to REACT once the problems materialized. The inaction and disregard for poor people. Is that justified because a couple of local yokels screwed up and didn't understand what to do? I guess they deserved it.

The whole DHS re-organization of government was done for a reason. Do you feel any safer? They knew about this one. What about the next one? These large scale natural/terrorist disasters ARE the responsibility of the feds, along with local first responders. When local resources aren't enough, it is the responsibility of the feds to do their part. For four days they did nothing and allowed more people to die.

 

[GT]

Quoting Paul Krugman? Wow, you are scraping the barrel.
He's a liar and a fraud. Well publicized and documented.

You are either woefully ignorant or willfully biased, sir.

I also have to question your motivation in quoting a Socialist (and lover of BJ Klintoon) on a gun oriented site. Socialism and private gun ownership are fundamentally inimical.

G

PS:

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/003406.htm
http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_luskin/kts200408090930.asp
http://blog.mises.org/blog/archives/003877.asp
http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn10302003.html
etc

 

[Warbow]

Thanks, Preacherman.

 

[feedthehogs]

Its just amazing how people were able to settle the west without government, cell phones, helicopters dropping supplies, school buses, advanced weather reports, etc.

I mean the idea of being self sufficient boggles the mind.

Since when does anyone believe that any form of government, run by any political party, really has a clue?

If your expecting the government to bail you out, email me your next of kin.
Or better yet, send it along with the 1/3 of the NO police force that bailed out when they were sworn to protect and serve.

That's basic government at its finest.

 

[macavada]

feedthehogs:

So, should the government have just left them to die?

 

[Preacherman]

Mark Steyn puts it very well (he lives in the US and writes a column for newspapers here and in the UK). From the Telegraph, London (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/....xml&sSheet=/news/2005/09/06/ixnewstop.html):

The Big Easy rocked, but didn't roll

By Mark Steyn

(Filed: 06/09/2005)

Readers may recall my words from a week ago on the approaching Katrina: "We relish the opportunity to rise to the occasion. And on the whole we do. Oh, to be sure, there are always folks who panic or loot. But most people don't, and many are capable of extraordinary acts of hastily improvised heroism."

What the hell was I thinking? I should be fired for that. Well, someone should be fired. I say that in the spirit of the Mayor of New Orleans, Ray Nagin, the Anti-Giuliani, a Mayor Culpa who always knows where to point the finger.

For some reason, I failed to consider the possibility that the panickers would include Hizzoner the Mayor and the looters would include significant numbers of the police department, though in fairness I wasn't the only one. As General Blum said at Saturday's Defence Department briefing: "No one anticipated the disintegration or the erosion of the civilian police force in New Orleans."

Indeed, they eroded faster than the levees. Several hundred cops are reported to have walked off the job. To give the city credit, it has a lovely "Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan" for hurricanes. The only flaw in the plan is that the person charged with putting it into effect is the mayor. And he didn't.

But I don't want to blame any single figure: the anti-Bush crowd have that act pretty much sewn up. I'd say New Orleans's political failure is symptomatic of a broader failure.

I got an e-mail over the weekend from a US Army surgeon just back in Afghanistan after his wedding. Changing planes in Kuwait for the final leg to Bagram and confronted by yet another charity box for Katrina relief, he decided that this time he'd pass. "I'd had it up to here," he wrote, "with the passivity, the whining, and the when-are-they-going-to-do-something blame game."

Let it be said that no one should die in a 100F windowless attic because he fled upstairs when the flood waters rose and now can't get out. But, in his general characterisation of "the Big Easy", my correspondent is not wrong. The point is, what are you like when it's not so easy?

Congressman Billy Tauzin once said of his state: "One half of Louisiana is under water and the other half is under indictment." Last week, four fifths of New Orleans was under water and the other four fifths should be under indictment - which is the kind of arithmetic the state's deeply entrenched kleptocrat political culture will have no trouble making add up.

Consider the signature image of the flood: an aerial shot of 255 school buses neatly parked at one city lot, their fuel tanks leaking gasoline into the urban lake. An enterprising blogger, Bryan Preston, worked out that each bus had 66 seats, which meant that the vehicles at just that one lot could have ferried out 16,830 people. Instead of entrusting its most vulnerable citizens to the gang-infested faecal hell of the Superdome, New Orleans had more than enough municipal transport on hand to have got almost everyone out in a couple of runs last Sunday.

Why didn't they? Well, the mayor didn't give the order. OK, but how about school board officials, or the fellows with the public schools transportation department, or the guy who runs that motor pool, or the individual bus drivers? If it ever occurred to any of them that these were potentially useful evacuation assets, they kept it to themselves.

So the first school bus to escape New Orleans and make it to safety in Texas was one that had been abandoned on a city street. A party of sodden citizens, ranging from the elderly to an eight-day-old baby, were desperate to get out, hopped aboard and got teenager Jabbor Gibson to drive them 13 hours non-stop to Houston. He'd never driven a bus before, and the authorities back in New Orleans may yet prosecute him. For rescuing people without a permit?

My Afghanistan army guy's observations on "passivity" reminded me of something I wrote for this paper a few days after 9/11, about how the airline cabin was the embodiment of the "culture of passivity". It's the most regulated environment most of us ever enter.

So on three of those flights everyone faithfully followed the Federal Aviation Administration's 1970s hijack procedures until it was too late. On the fourth plane, Todd Beamer, Jeremy Glick, Thomas Burnett, Mark Bingham and other forgotten heroes figured out what was going on and rushed their hijackers, preventing the plane from proceeding to its target - believed to be the White House or Congress. On a morning when the government did nothing for those passengers, those passengers did something for the government.

On 9/11, the federal government failed the people; last week, local and state government failed the people. On 9/11, they stuck to the 30-year-old plan; last week, they didn't bother implementing the state-of-the-art 21st-century plan. Why argue about which level of bureaucracy you prefer to be let down by?

My mistake was to think that the citizenry of the Big Easy would rise to the great rallying cry of Todd Beamer: "Are you ready, guys? Let's roll!" Instead, the spirit of the week was summed up by a gentleman called Mike Franklin, taking time out of his hectic schedule of looting to speak to the Associated Press: "People who are oppressed all their lives, man, it's an opportunity to get back at society."

Unlike 9/11, when the cult of victimhood was temporarily suspended in honour of the many real, actual victims under the rubble, in New Orleans everyone claimed the mantle of victim, from the incompetent mayor to the "oppressed" guys wading through the water with new DVD players under each arm.

Welfare culture is bad not just because, as in Europe, it's bankrupting the state, but because it enfeebles the citizenry, it erodes self-reliance and resourcefulness.

New Orleans is a party town in the middle of a welfare swamp and, like many parties, it doesn't look so good when someone puts the lights up. I'll always be grateful to a burg that gave us Louis Armstrong and Louis Prima, and I'll always love Satch's great record of Do You Know What it Means to Miss New Orleans? But, after this last week, I'm not sure I would.

 

[feedthehogs]

Its not the governments job to feed, house, or clothe people.

Its not the goverments job to rescue you from your own stupidity.

If you abuse the privilege of being stupid, let natural selection take its course.

We have an obligation as humans and citizens thru private charities to help the sick and widowed who cannot take care of themselves.

The more people depend on government, the bigger the 800lb gorilla becomes.

 

[gc70]

It seems that the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor of Louisiana have been fairly consistent roadblocks in this process.

As noted in a previous post, Bush wanted a mandatory evacuation, but Blanco and Nagin held off until the last minute.

concerning the mandatory evacuation order

President George W. Bush urged the order when he spoke to Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco earlier in the day, and New Orleans officials accepted that it was time.

Much has been said about how long it took to get the National Guard into New Orleans, even though it is not often mentioned that the National Guard was operating under the orders of the Governor of Louisiana.

The Army Times

Thousands of National Guard members are helping to police the streets in Louisiana and Mississippi under emergency declarations issued by the governors of those states.

Even now, the National Guard is under the Governor's orders, not the President's.

International Herald Tribune

Blanco has refused to sign over National Guard control to the federal government and has turned to a Clinton administration official, James Lee Witt, a former Federal Emergency Management Agency chief, to help run relief efforts.

Oh, and now that everything is so well under control, the Mayor of New Orleans is sending his folks on vacation.

New York Times

NEW ORLEANS, Sept. 4 - A day after two police suicides and the abrupt resignations or desertions of up to 200 police officers, defiant city officials on Sunday began offering five-day vacations - and even trips to Las Vegas - to the police, firefighters and city emergency workers and their families.

The idea of paid vacations was raised by both Mayor C. Ray Nagin and senior police officials who said that their forces were exhausted and traumatized and that the arrival of the National Guard had made way for the officers to be relieved.

 

[El Rojo]

Who do you get to drive these buses when most of the city (including the bus drivers) is on the road evacuating?

I am proud of your Gewehr98, I was going to post that picture of young Jabbar Gibson, but you beat me too it!!! It seems he didn't think too much about the "people do not have enough training and more people are going to get killed in bus wrecks than in the ensuing panic of New Orleans, so it is better to let them die in the streets than die on the highways" argument. Here is where I learned about him. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabbar_Gibson (by the way I do a lot of current events lessons for my high school classes and Wikipedia is an excellent source)

It seems to me that a whole lot of buses were left sitting around when they could have been evacuating people. Sure hind sight is 20/20, but hey, if you want to point fingers, remember three more point right back at you.

 

[macavada]

Don't give me that Mark Steyn drivel, Preacherman.

 

[Kharn]

But it takes a matter of hours to fill a cargo plane and drop food and water into the city.

Air drops arent usually done into urban environments, you need a giant field.

Kharn

 

[Dannyboy]

but the aftermath, the lack of response, can only be attributed to the feds, given the requirements for the kind of response necessary in N.O.

You're right, it is the Fed's fault. After all, they are bound by that thing we like to call the Constitution. As stated above, the LA National Guard was under the command of Gov. Blanco. It was her responsibility to mobilize them and get them moving into NO. And then there is the fact that the mayor and his inept city government completely disregarded their own emergency management plan and waited until 24 before landfall to ask everyone to evacuate. I haven't seen anywhere that he ordered an evacuation. Yeah, I can see how this is all Bush's fault.

 

[cuchulainn]

I have nothing but praise for the federal effort, frankly.

Anyone who criticizes the effort is utterly unable to comprehend the logistical genius -- yes genius -- it took to orchestrate such a massive response under such horrible conditions (or is an oportunistic partisan)

The federal response was near perfect. I stand in awe that the feds got so much aid there in a mere three days.

My compassion for the people of southern Louisiana is quickly turning to contempt.

macavada: So, should the government have just left them to die?

No it should not and did not. Rather, it conducted a near-perfect relief effort, orchestrating an amazing amount of aid and an army of relief personnel in a mere three days.

If disaster ever befalls my region, I can only pray that the federal effort would be as good.

I'd be happy with half as good.

 

[Master Blaster]

Sickening Narcistic Poop

You might have expected the administration to reconsider its hostility to emergency preparedness after 9/11 - after all, emergency management is as important in the aftermath of a terrorist attack as it is following a natural disaster. As many people have noticed, the failed response to Katrina shows that we are less ready to cope with a terrorist attack today than we were four years ago.

You know I keep hearing this same line of narcistic crap from the talking heads in NYC. Like the WTC was the huggest worst disaster ever. Now lets face it 3000 people were killed. BUT 20 blocks away there was electricity, the streets were open for truck traffic. Hospitals were functioning, food and water was availible.

The WTC as tragic as it was, was no where near the size or scope of the disaster caused by Hurricane Katrina. NOT even close. But if you live in NYC and work for the networks or write for the Times the WTC was the biggest disaster ever, after all it happened in NYC to THEM.

 

[Crosshair]

Bayou Boy

Have any of you ever been in a place thathad a mandatory evecuation order?

Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt. The flood of 97 was basicly a mini New Orleans, short notice, everyone out. Everyone loaded supplies and headed out. The elderly and those without transportation where evacuated in a relativly organised maner. There was no looting, unless you count a few people breaking into the flooded stores and it did take the feds awhile to get into town. However people, for the most part, relied on themselves and got out and where able to get by relativly well. we managed to get the fires out with little outside help. (A few tractor trailers and a tanker of fire retardant.) The feds arived right when they where needed and we started to put the town back together again.

 

[BenW]

orchestrating an amazing amount of aid and an army of relief personnel in a mere three days.

Funny how that three days keeps popping up, isn't it? Just as Buzzcut's first post indicated, the exact same amount of time emergency response agencies tell citizens to provide food, water, and other necessities for themselves.

 

[Art Eatman]

It has always taken some two to four days before any federal response can be fully ramped up. I don't care who plans what, it will always take some two to four days.

I saw it first-hand after Celia (an Andrew-intensity storm) in 1970, and from the air after Fern and Edith in 1973. I heard from family and friends after Beulah (1967) and Carla (1961). Two to four days.

And that's where you have physical access into the devastated area. Where highways are fairly well unobstructed. Where the water has receded.

It's becoming ever more clear from the amount of TV coverage that our biggest emotional problem--the name-calling and finger-pointing--stems from the Great American Game of "Instant Gratification". We want reality (!) to be just like primetime TV: Everything's all better; Momma's kissed the ouchie and removed the hurt, and all inside of two hours.

Art

 

[roo_ster]

"Crooked as a Louisiana Politician"

That used to be a joke or as a funny descriptor:
This road is crooked as a Louisiana politician!

Its not quite so funny when the corrupt & incompetent politicos get their constituents killed. Who gets elected mayor, city councilman, or county poo-bah just may be a matter of life and death, so pay attention, FTLoG!

Local & state gov't have to hold on for 72 hours, under the better circumstances (good state local planning, good state & local cooperation with fed.gov, good roads to pasted areas) until fed.gov can send in the big guns. They have to hold it together for longer if the aforementioned "better" circumstances do not exist. What we saw in NOLA was the collapse of state & local gov't both before (not following a plan) and after Katrina hit. The Hobbesian spectacle we saw in NOLA was the natural result.

I surely will pay more attention to local elections in the future.

 

[crewsr]

the local Govt and the people of NO need a

stiff dose of personal responsibility. Both failed. The federal Govt works well when it is told what to do. This must happen by the local Govt. After all only they know what they need or cant handle!!!!!
The People and the local Govt failed first. Why do I get the feeling that communication from the local govt to the Feds(before the Strom) was stand-off-ish. We now know the Local Govt did not even use there basic plans and protocols so I wonder if they even blew off the feds.......only to come cryin back when the SHTF.



This local community needs to wake up and look in the mirror. But what do you exspect out of an entitlement society.

 

[macavada]

FEMA Chief Waited Until After Storm Hit

Meanwhile, the airline industry said the government's request for help evacuating storm victims didn't come until late Thursday afternoon. The president of the Air Transport Association, James May, said the Homeland Security Department called then to ask if the group could participate in an airlift for refugees.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050907/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/katrina_disaster_response

By TED BRIDIS, Associated Press Writer
22 minutes ago



The government's disaster chief waited until hours after Hurricane Katrina had already struck the Gulf Coast before asking his boss to dispatch 1,000 Homeland Security employees to the region — and gave them two days to arrive, according to internal documents.

Michael Brown, director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, sought the approval from Homeland Security Secretary Mike Chertoff roughly five hours after Katrina made landfall on Aug. 29. Brown said that among duties of these employees was to "convey a positive image" about the government's response for victims.

Before then, FEMA had positioned smaller rescue and communications teams across the Gulf Coast. But officials acknowledged Tuesday the first department-wide appeal for help came only as the storm raged.

Brown's memo to Chertoff described Katrina as "this near catastrophic event" but otherwise lacked any urgent language. The memo politely ended, "Thank you for your consideration in helping us to meet our responsibilities."

The initial responses of the government and Brown came under escalating criticism as the breadth of destruction and death grew. President Bush and Congress on Tuesday pledged separate investigations into the federal response to Katrina. "Governments at all levels failed," said Sen. Susan Collins (news, bio, voting record), R-Maine.

Homeland Security spokesman Russ Knocke said Brown had positioned front-line rescue teams and Coast Guard helicopters before the storm. Brown's memo on Aug. 29 aimed to assemble the necessary federal work force to support the rescues, establish communications and coordinate with victims and community groups, Knocke said.

Instead of rescuing people or recovering bodies, these employees would focus on helping victims find the help they needed, he said.

"There will be plenty of time to assess what worked and what didn't work," Knocke said. "Clearly there will be time for blame to be assigned and to learn from some of the successful efforts."

Brown's memo told employees that among their duties, they would be expected to "convey a positive image of disaster operations to government officials, community organizations and the general public."

"FEMA response and recovery operations are a top priority of the department and as we know, one of yours," Brown wrote Chertoff. He proposed sending 1,000 Homeland Security Department employees within 48 hours and 2,000 within seven days.

Knocke said the 48-hour period suggested for the Homeland employees was to ensure they had adequate training. "They were training to help the life-savers," Knocke said.

Employees required a supervisor's approval and at least 24 hours of disaster training in Maryland, Florida or Georgia. "You must be physically able to work in a disaster area without refrigeration for medications and have the ability to work in the outdoors all day," Brown wrote.

The same day Brown wrote Chertoff, Brown also urged local fire and rescue departments outside Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi not to send trucks or emergency workers into disaster areas without an explicit request for help from state or local governments. Brown said it was vital to coordinate fire and rescue efforts.

Sen. Barbara Mikulski (news, bio, voting record), D-Md., said Tuesday that Brown should step down.

After a senators-only briefing by Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and other Cabinet members, Sen. Charles E. Schumer (news, bio, voting record) said lawmakers weren't getting their questions answered.

"What people up there want to know, Democrats and Republicans, is what is the challenge ahead, how are you handling that and what did you do wrong in the past," said Schumer, D-N.Y.

Sen. Ted Stevens (news, bio, voting record), R-Alaska, said the administration is "getting a bad rap" for the emergency response.

"This is the largest disaster in the history of the United States, over an area twice the size of Europe," Stevens said. "People have to understand this is a big, big problem."

Meanwhile, the airline industry said the government's request for help evacuating storm victims didn't come until late Thursday afternoon. The president of the Air Transport Association, James May, said the Homeland Security Department called then to ask if the group could participate in an airlift for refugees.

 

[Flyboy]

Are you suggesting we send in the airliners before the hurricane hits? Airliners aren't built the same way C-130's are; heck, the -130 had to be beefed up to fly into hurricanes. Do you really think that the airliners would have survived being anywhere near the storm?

And you're actually upset that the memo DIDN'T SCREAM AND YELL AND USE ALL CAPS AND EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!11!!ONE!!!ELEVEN? There's nothing wrong with using "polite language;" in fact, I'd be willing to bet that everybody who got that memo knew what was at stake. Getting hysterical doesn't help anybody. Professionals keep their cool while they work; that's why they work so well.

As for the two- and seven-day windows for sending people: they have other jobs, too. DHS in particular. Should they have just walked away from them? Should we just shut down the national airspace system completely, leaving hundreds of thousands stranded? Perhaps everybody should have just walked away from his post on the border. Or might it be smarter to, oh, I don't know, identify which people can be spared, and who needs to stay behind to avoid compounding the problem? Not to mention that Scotty's on vacation this week, so he can't beam anybody anywhere; consequently, it takes time for them to arrive. You might also note that the 48-hour window was to make sure they had some sort of training. Remember, they're not FEMA people; they're being pulled away from their normal jobs to help.

As for Chuck Schumer, in case he hadn't noticed, the relevant people are still busy coping with the situation; his questions can bloody well wait.

Yeah, there are some cockups at the Federal level, but there's plenty of blame to go around, and much of it can be reasonable directed at state and local government. Either way, this is not the time for it; let the people do their jobs, then take their time and attention to interrogate them.

Sheesh.

 

[Art Eatman]

Well, lessee: Wouldn't it help if the runways were clear before landing airplanes? I always liked a clean runway, even for a 172!

Hey, Billy Tauzin resurrected his old comment about Louisiana:

"Half of Louisiana is under water. The other half is under indictment."

Art

 

[BenW]

They're sending more than 2000 people and they're not all from DHS. I got the email today that they're looking for 2000 people from my agency to volunteer for a month of deployment to the area, after staging and training in Orlando. I'm sure other parts of the Fed.gov got the same notice. With all the media hand wringing to "do something" there's gonna be more Feds down there than residents within a week.

Edit: Oops, sorry, my mistake. I just reread the email. It is 2000, but they're not all coming from DHS. THey're asking for volunteers across the Federal workforce to make up the 2000.