Federal law Re: Gifting handgun to family visiting from another state?

[LAK Supply]

My dad's going to be here for Christmas and I want to give him a Glock 9mm. There is no state law in CA that makes my giving him an approved handgun a crime... he must simply register it with the state within 30 days.

What about federal law? I know I couldn't mail it directly to him, but what about giving it to him while he's here? Can anybody confirm or deny? I figure if it's too simple it must be illegal.

 

[JerryM]

You cannot legally transfer a handgun to someone from another state except through a FFL in that person's state. The subject indicates your Dad is a resident of another state.

It would be illegal, by Fed law, to give the gun to your Dad if he is a resident of another state unless the transaction goes through a FFL in your Dad's state of residence.

Jerry

 

[LAK Supply]

That's exactly what I thought.... if it's simple it must be illegal. Thanks.

 

[Zundfolge]

What might work (and I'm hoping the legal beagles here chime in on this one) is for you to pack up the gun and take it to your dad's when you visit and while you're there you go down to an FFL's shop in his town and transfer the gun to him.

I don't seem to recall that the federal rules REQUIRE the gun to be shipped by a common carrier.

But again, this is more of a question than a statement of fact.

 

[wdlsguy]

What might work (and I'm hoping the legal beagles here chime in on this one) is for you to pack up the gun and take it to your dad's when you visit and while you're there you go down to an FFL's shop in his town and transfer the gun to him.

That would work, but it sounds like the dad (from California) is planning to visit his son (in Wyoming).

 

[igpoobah]

Make arrangements ahead of time with a FFL dealer near where your dad lives. Give your dad the pistol when he comes, and explain to him that when he leaves to go back home he can't take it with him, but rather you will need to ship it to his dealer in Ca. When he gets home he can just go over and pick it up...

 

[gunsnmoses]

Have dad become a resident of Wyo for a bit
he may still need to get it registered back in CA when he goes home

 

[Phil Lee]

I'm no lawyer, but so long as your gift is a genuine gift, it isn't a commercial act. So long as it isn't a commercial act, what federal law applies to the transfer?

 

[Outlaws]

Whatever happened to writing a letter to the ATF? (other than it might get reversed...)

I should ask if I can "loan" a pistol/rifle/shotgun to a relative and they stop by the FFL in their state and have it transfered.

 

[elrod]

First, my disclaimer: I am not a lawyer!

JerryM

You cannot legally transfer a handgun to someone from another state except through a FFL in that person's state.

That is correct (as I understand the law) for a firearm sale. Isn't the law on a gift entirely different?

Phil Lee thinks like I do...

.....so long as your gift is a genuine gift, it isn't a commerical act.

And if that applies, as long as it does not violate either of the involved States' laws, it is legal. At least, that was my belief. (Again, see disclaimer)

 

[skipjack]

I do not think that gifting directly is going to be legal.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1

In addition, I would not tempt fate by allowing the gift recipient to transport the firearm back into California. I know virtually nothing about California regs, except that they are notoriously strict.

 

[wdlsguy]

Make arrangements ahead of time with a FFL dealer near where your dad lives. Give your dad the pistol when he comes, and explain to him that when he leaves to go back home he can't take it with him, but rather you will need to ship it to his dealer in Ca. When he gets home he can just go over and pick it up...

Bingo!

 

[BobbyQuickdraw]

I think you should take this opportunity to ask the ATF directly with a letter or call or something.

It is federally illegal to transfer a handgun to a resident in another state without a FFL. BUT, exceptions are frequently made for Parent to Child and Spouse to Spouse transfers.

The ATF site does not provide a clear answer to if this exception applies in a multi-state family.

California DOJ told me that in CA I have to fill out a "Operation of Law" form for the family gift - no matter where the gun originated from. My parents live out of state. But that is just CA law - but they do still permit the transfer without an FFL.

So I say check with the ATF and let us know!

 

[wdlsguy]

exceptions are frequently made for Parent to Child and Spouse to Spouse transfers.

There is no exemption of this sort in federal law.

 

[Librarian]

Interstate transfers must go through an FFL

licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector

- 18 USC 922 (a)(3) and (a)(5). Gift, sale, whatever - it's a transfer. Exception is "by bequest or intestate succession".

INSIDE CALIFORNIA, two California resident family members of the right relationship, may skip the FFL and file the Operation of Law form.

 

[JerryM]

{JerryM
Quote:You cannot legally transfer a handgun to someone from another state except through a FFL in that person's state.

That is correct (as I understand the law) for a firearm sale. Isn't the law on a gift entirely different?}

No, because it is illegal to transfer the gun to him.

(B1) To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? [Back]

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

(B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State? [Back]

A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

Here is the ATF website. If in doubt call the ATF. I have done this several times and found them helpful, and not anti in their attitudes.

If a father wants to transfer a haandgun to his child in another state, the only way it can be done without a FFL involved is to make it in a will and identify the firearm so there can be no mistake. If not then it will have to go through a FFL in the receiver's home state.

Regards,
Jerry

 

[DMF]

That is correct (as I understand the law) for a firearm sale. Isn't the law on a gift entirely different?

No, federal law controls the TRANSFER of firearms. While discussions on this topic often center on sales, transfers of all types, gifts, sales, trades, etc, are covered by fed law.