Fedex won't ship "ghost gunner" cnc mill

[docsleepy]

It is a private company, FedEx, and they have a right to decide what they're going to ship.

The manufacturer is also a private company, and as any reasonable company they would want to know that their products will be shipped! That is called planning! When they are shipping several small expensive boxes per day, it's pretty obvious what is in them, I don't know why this escaped someone above.

So it's up to the manufacturer to find an alternate means of delivery, simple as that. Free enterprise, private property rights.

 

[barnbwt]

Does this mean the GGs are nearing shipment? Talk about bloggers missing the forest for the trees...

TCB

 

[jerkface11]

It is a private company, FedEx, and they have a right to decide what they're going to ship.

Except that they have a set of rules for what they will and will not ship. And CNC machines are not on the bad list.

 

[docsleepy]

Private company. Unless it violates a 1964 civil rights act, they can change the rules anytime they want to! For any reason they want to! No matter if it makes no sense at all.

That's the meaning of the word "liberty"

 

[Tom488]

Hey ,FedEx... better stop shipping these, too. They can be used to make an illegal SBS, in direct violation of the NFA'34:

 

[coloradokevin]

Hmmm. I was wondering if this company was ever going to get around to shipping product. Anyway, I wonder how the issue ever came up with FedEx in the first place. Did they tell FedEx "hey, we want to ship a gun manufacturing machine!"? Honestly, I think they should have just reported their shipments as "tools", or "machining equipment".

Regardless, I do worry that the invention of the Ghost Gunner equipment will have unintended consequences for this industry. Don't get me wrong, it's an ingenious idea, and I am intrigued by the concept myself. But, here are my predictions for the next 5-10 years:

1) Anti-gun legislators will push the ATF to further regulate what they consider to be a gun, and thereby eliminate the 80% lowers that this machine is designed to finish. This will have little impact on the overall firearms industry, and most gun owners won't even be aware of it.

2) Continued refinement will result in a Ghost Gunner machine that can mill raw bar stock into a receiver. The machine will probably cost more, but it will probably happen eventually.

3) In response to such a development, the legislators will decide that upper receivers and barrels need to be regulated, too. You'll probably never see a home-based machine that can manufacture a barrel for a rifle, so the regulation of such parts would create a bureaucratic barrier to the production of guns at home. The unintended consequence in all of this will be that it will be far more complicated and irritating to try to do simple things (like a barrel change) on your existing guns.

I sure hope I'm wrong about this, but the government usually finds a way to complicate issues, particularly when they involve contentious items like firearms.

 

[barnbwt]

Regardless, I do worry that the invention of the Ghost Gunner equipment will have unintended consequences for this industry.

Same consequences as befell Kinko's after the affordable printer & computer were introduced. Both can be used to counterfeiting money and produce illegal pornography, yet neither were subject to restriction (yes, there were rumors of mechanisms to prevent counterfeiting currency, but how could that be possible with memory tech of the day --even if real, it was purely voluntary)

The Ghost Gunner will only be withheld from us if we allow it to be. The INSTANT some anti puke brings up legislation to ban/register these things, we MUST be ready to fight back and win. There's a certain precedent for losing the means of production...

TCB

 

[GAMEOVER44]

Wow im so sick of FedEx and anyone who wont ship certain stuff. If its legal to buy it should be legal to ship. Period.

 

[au_prospector]

Just to clarify, FedEx is not a private company

Private company. Unless it violates a 1964 civil rights act, they can change the rules anytime they want to! For any reason they want to! No matter if it makes no sense at all.

Almost Doc, FedEx is a public traded stock company. You have said it twice so I felt I should clarify. Big difference if your in the business I am in. Some of the common carriers would be private companies, but not FedEx nor UPS. Common carriers provide services under regulatory bodies ie USDOT, USDA, FTA, FAA and USanything else that feels they have a vested interest. There are also private carriers, which can refuse service to anyone, but still are regulated.

 

[jmorris]

The lined post says the want to see how it is regulated before they start shipping it. Sounds a little BS'ish to me. Why not just ship it until it becomes regulated?

Then again I just don't get the shipping world. I can't send say a Mac 10 semiauto pistol USPS but if it is full auto, that turns it into a machinegun and that is OK to ship USPS...

 

[Ranger Roberts]

It must be a very small cnc mill to be carried by Fedex. I have been in the machining industry for all of my adult life and I have never seen a decent cnc mill that could be sent by Fedex. Most are sent by common carrier and I would venture that he could have his sent by common carrier with little to no hassle. Generally one phone call is all it would take.

https://www.ghostgunner.net/

The machine is a desktop CNC.

 

[coloradokevin]

Same consequences as befell Kinko's after the affordable printer & computer were introduced. Both can be used to counterfeiting money and produce illegal pornography, yet neither were subject to restriction (yes, there were rumors of mechanisms to prevent counterfeiting currency, but how could that be possible with memory tech of the day --even if real, it was purely voluntary)

The Ghost Gunner will only be withheld from us if we allow it to be. The INSTANT some anti puke brings up legislation to ban/register these things, we MUST be ready to fight back and win. There's a certain precedent for losing the means of production…

You're more optimistic than I am. I don't think the government will withhold a desktop CNC mill from us, I believe that they'll further regulate other parts of these guns (since making receivers will become "too easy"). The thing I anticipate is regulation on parts that can't easily be milled on a home-based CNC mill — like barrels.

Regardless, I think the FedEx thing is a silly and temporary hurdle that doesn't really have any reason for existing.

 

[docsleepy]

I'm not a lawyer, so I may get this wrong but let me give a go at it:

Private versus public can be used in two ways.
The University of Kentucky is probably a public institution, meaning that it is owned & controlled by the government. Usually through a Board of Trustees under some control of the executive branch /legislature of the state.

there might well be a private company in Kentucky that sells groceries.

That private enterprise could have acquired it's initial capital by either of two means:
It could be privately held, meaning that stocks or shared are controlled by small group of people and not available to the general public.
The private enterprise could be publicly held meaning that the shares are available for general public to purchase through a broker or any Internet trading firm. In general, it probably then it
has to file more reports with the Securities and Exchange Commission etc. etc. etc.


My use of the word "private" was in the former rather than the latter category.

 

[docsleepy]

The comment was correct that a publicly held private companies are under more regulatory controlling. This might be important, as the commentor pointed out!

 

[MachIVshooter]

It must be a very small cnc mill to be carried by Fedex. I have been in the machining industry for all of my adult life and I have never seen a decent cnc mill that could be sent by Fedex. Most are sent by common carrier and I would venture that he could have his sent by common carrier with little to no hassle. Generally one phone call is all it would take.

I have seen some small cnc mills at community colleges and vo-tech schools so that programming and basic milling classes could be taught but they were still a few hundred pounds each.

As Ranger Roberts already pointed out, it's very small. As in, footprint of just under 1 square foot and only 45 lbs.

 

[Skribs]

I've already boycotted FedEx. Amazon has flagged my account to not ship through FedEx anymore. This has nothing to do with firearms but everything to do with other stupid policies they have.

 

[dobrzemetal]

I work for FedEx PT, not surprised they refused but they have been held accountable for crazy stuff in the past - like a drug distribution ring, etc. It sounds like the manufacturer talked to FedEx and told them that the machine could print guns, not wanting to get involved in a grey area they declined to. If the guy would of just said it was a 3d printer and that's it, no problems. So when they go to ups they should learn a lesson. Anyway, at express we ship lots of dangerous stuff - radioactive / explosive / infections substances a printer isn't a big deal, dude is just butthert - move on a ship UPS and don't get all crazy don't tread on me T-shirt wearing carrying an AR down the road mess with the cops type. Do your business and move on.

 

[HankB]

Now I'm sure it's a publicity stunt - why would anyone check with Fedex to ship tools unless they wanted a problem?

Fedex has no problem shipping actual firearms,

Exactly - just put "Machine Tools" or "CNC Mill" on the package - accurate & honest descriptions both - and they'd be good to go.

Unless they WANTED a problem they could make a big deal over.

As for guns . . . I'm pretty sure my CMP Garand came directly to my door via Fedex.

 

[blarby]

They did want the stink, that's how political games work.

I love DD, but they are most certainly not a 100% tool company being hindered by the anti-illuminati.

 

[tmarks11]

Originally Posted by http://www.wired.com/2015/02/fedex-mill-untraceable-firearms/
Defense Distributed’s founder Cody Wilson argues...“The artifact that they’re shipping is a CNC mill. There’s nothing about it that is specifically related to firearms except the hocus pocus of the marketing.”

That is a pretty weak argument.

This is not really a 3 axis cnc mill. This is a box that you shove an aluminum unfinished lower inside of, that has stepper motors driving tools aligned to ONLY mill the required slot, drill the required holes, and mill the magazine well.

It is not like you could also use this to make engine parts in your spare times. It ONLY can be used to mill unfinished receivers. Nothing else. So it IS "specifically related [to firearm manufacturing]".

Not that this really changes the issues of what is FEDEX doing, and why are they doing it. Next in the news: FEDEX refuses to ship 3d printers...

Regardless, I do worry that the invention of the Ghost Gunner equipment will have unintended consequences for this industry.... Anti-gun legislators will push the ATF to further regulate what they consider to be a gun, and thereby eliminate the 80% lowers that this machine is designed to finish.

I believe that you are right. If it only takes you 20 minutes to finish an 80% lower, than we are going to see the law revised to eliminate the availability/legality of 80% lowers. And it will actually take a real CNC machine to make these things.

"Modifying GG to mill raw bar stock into a lower?" That will require a true 3 axis CNC machine, and precision metrology and jigs for alignment. That is going to be beyond most hobbyists.

 

[JSH1]

I suspect that the response to 80% lowers will be a move to ban homebuilt firearms altogether and a requirement that all firearms be built by licensed firearm manufacturers.

 

[armarsh]

...This is not really a 3 axis cnc mill. This is a box that you shove an aluminum unfinished lower inside of, that has stepper motors driving tools aligned to ONLY mill the required slot, drill the required holes, and mill the magazine well.

It is not like you could also use this to make engine parts in your spare times. It ONLY can be used to mill unfinished receivers. Nothing else. So it IS "specifically related [to firearm manufacturing]". ...

That is not what is claimed on the Ghost Gunner website: https://ghostgunner.net/index.html

Ghost Gunner is a general purpose CNC mill, built upon a large body of open source work, including the gshield 3 axis motion hardware, the grbl g-code parser and motion controller, and popular microcontrollers. All GhostGunner schematics and design files will be published into the public domain, and anyone can program anything for the machine.

Beyond files of our own .DD format, Ghost Gunner is meant to accept TinyG code from any CAM program. The platform is open and the plans and files will be disclosed to the public domain.

3D printable jigs are used to hold the part in place as each milling step is performed. For example, milling an 80% AR-15 lower receiver requires 2 jig pieces to secure the lower in place while the trigger pocket is milled, and then two more jig pieces are installed to drill the trigger pin holes. As most 80% firearms require deep pocket milling, GhostGunner's mounting table is parallel to the end mill shaft. This orientation maximizes 3D printed jig strength, minimizes jig complexity, and mechanically aligns the part to the machine upon insertion into the MakerSlide-patterned, Open Source T Slot stainless rails. No glue or tape required... this is a real CNC with real mounting solutions.

Ghost Gunner is indeed promising that this machine could be used to make other machined parts.

 

[barnbwt]

I suspect that the response to 80% lowers will be a move to ban homebuilt firearms altogether and a requirement that all firearms be built by licensed firearm manufacturers.

You really think we're on the brink of another Gun Control Act? Because that is what it would take to do this. The sky is not falling, the ATF are merely being themselves and chipping where they are able. Pre-loading toolpath files in the machine was obvious intent, so that was prohibited. They cannot ban the GG any more than "gunsmith lathes" produced by grizzly, and they cannot single-handedly make firearms produced for personal use by the producer into regulated items requiring licensure to make.

TCB

 

[barnbwt]

"Ghost Gunner is indeed promising that this machine could be used to make other machined parts."
like 1911 frames...

"...This is not really a 3 axis cnc mill. This is a box that you shove an aluminum unfinished lower inside of, that has stepper motors driving tools aligned to ONLY mill the required slot, drill the required holes, and mill the magazine well."
Congratties, you've described a 3 axis CNC mill. This one is little, just barely big enough to do lowers, since that was the intended market (differs from "use")

 

[oldbear]

It must be a very small cnc mill to be carried by Fedex. I have been in the machining industry for all of my adult life and I have never seen a decent cnc mill that could be sent by Fedex. Most are sent by common carrier and I would venture that he could have his sent by common carrier with little to no hassle. Generally one phone call is all it would take.

I have seen some small cnc mills at community colleges and vo-tech schools so that programming and basic milling classes could be taught but they were still a few hundred pounds each.

^^^ This way my first thought, item was to big to ship FedEx. I can understand FedEx not wanting to handle any shipment they are not convinced is a legal product. Once again the lawyers have the final say.