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Feeding a J Frame for Concealed Carry

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by J-Bar, Apr 24, 2014.

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  1. fastbolt

    fastbolt Member

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    None taken. :)

    Hey, never hurts to take a step back and take another look to see if you missed something said earlier, right? ;)

    I just put the 60 year mark in my rear view mirror, myself, and sometimes I've found it's best to throttle back a bit and re-examine why someone may be asking the questions they're asking.

    Who knows, but maybe they aren't asking the questions they think they're asking, or should be asking, maybe? :confused:

    Just thought I'd stop and make sure I hadn't missed something that might change the comments I'd offer. ;)
     
  2. FuzzyBunny

    FuzzyBunny Member

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    I'm not that far from 60 myself.

    Like I said my round choice was because I was told it performed well in very tight spaces. Thats the plan for the model 60, it is the "get the h3ll off me" backup gun. And it will set us both on fire.

    If I get to that point I have had a big FAIL in 5 other steps and is a last resort. My little 60 is not for use on someone 15 yards away. But thats tactics and not bullets.

    Second part of the round choice was because the 900 rounds were free!
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2014
  3. tomrkba

    tomrkba Member

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    Speer Gold Dots because they are known to work.
     
  4. conw

    conw Member

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    No snark intended here but I'm curious: are you saying you can't make reliable hits @ 15yds with that gun or are you saying you are (fairly) certain you won't need to?
     
  5. FuzzyBunny

    FuzzyBunny Member

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    No snark intended here but I'm curious: are you saying you can't make reliable hits @ 15yds with that gun or are you saying you are (fairly) certain you won't need to?

    With this ammo the +p treasury load I can make head shots all the time. It does not shoot to point of aim like the 158gr LRN that I shoot coke cans at. It is not my first line firearm except where I can't hide my .45

    You know how the best laid plans of men are.

    If the voice commands and .45 and all else fails I go for the model 60, I hope before they are on top of me. But that can happen before you know it. The +p treasury load tends to shoot an inch high at 15 yards plus a big ball of flame. I shot it once from inside a cabin at a racoon and it was like a flashbang going off. Blew a fist size hole on exit of the egg stealing coon. Lost all night vision and it rang my bell real good.
     
  6. Cooldill

    Cooldill Member

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    With my new M642-1 no-lock S&W I can make reliable 3" groups all day at 15 yards.

    At 7 yards I can nearly cloverleaf groups in the head/chest area.

    The gun is accurate. I'm not that great of a shooter and have only started shooting handguns seriously in the last 2 years or so.
     
  7. Cooldill

    Cooldill Member

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    Well, if you ask me, the old 158 grain lead SWC is the best self defense load for the .38 special, because that's what it was 50 years ago.

    Obviously it must still be true today.
     
  8. Stainz

    Stainz Member

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    While the Remington R38S12 'Express P&R' (Order #22300) +P 158gr LHPSWC may not be available today, a check this AM on their site reveals it hasn't been discontinued. It's softer lead opens reliably in ballistic gelatin at the 840/860 fps from the likes of my 642/2" 10. They destroy 2L pop bottles full of water impressively, too, leaving the expected small entry/large exit holes. While their recoil is brisk in the 642, it isn't a problem in my 2" 10, much less my 2 5/8" PC627 UDR. With the mission of the 642 being that of a last-ditch CCW, I feel it's recoil reduced follow-up accuracy at the typical self defense distances will be unimportant. I will be happier when I find it on the shelves again, however.

    Stainz
     
  9. benzy2

    benzy2 Member

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    Not to totally railroad this thread but are you talking a "head shot" on a card board cut out or on a person, fighting for their life, that is aware you're intent it to put a hot mess of lead (and maybe copper) through that head? Shooting a stationary piece of processed tree at a casual pace is one thing. I'd be much less confident in my ability when it comes to a moving, bobbing, running, shooting back target to make a head shot at 15 yards under such a situation.
     
  10. Olderbutwiser

    Olderbutwiser Member

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    I used to carry 5 rds of 125 grain Remington Golden Saber +p load for Concealed Carry and felt comfortable.
    I recently decided to go with a S&W Shield 9MM with 8 rd mag with jhp 115 gr rounds. Now I feel a lot more comfortable, but still use the .38 ultralite around the house. Comfortable with either one, actually.
     
  11. RustyShackelford

    RustyShackelford member

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    .38spl +Ps.....

    I'd be leery of buying any new boxes of Remington Golden Saber. :uhoh:
    I purchased a 20rd box of Golden Saber +P 185gr JHP .45acp that was really sub-par. $28.00 USD, too. :mad:

    If I get a new snub .38spl or J frame, I'd get either Speer Gold Dot +P 135gr, Corbon DPX, MagSafe SWAT(+P), or the Winchester PDX1 .38spl load.
    Any of these rounds could do well for a CC revolver/BUG.
     
  12. Cooldill

    Cooldill Member

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    Why were they "sub-par"?

    Find me a place, either in person or online, that has Speer GD 135 gr. +P Short Barrel for sale and I will gladly buy some.

    Until then, the Remington golden saber 125 +Ps are the best performing snub load out there than can actually be FOUND.
     
  13. conw

    conw Member

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    I think perhaps you misread somewhere because the first and only mention of head shots is from the post of yours I'm currently quoting :). That's okay though.

    You do raise a good point. My answer is that getting as good as possible also gives you a very good idea of your limitations.

    There are tons of different scenarios and variables that must be taken into account besides range wherever defensive use of a firearm might occur at whatever range e.g. 15 yds. I wouldn't take a shot I didn't feel confident making. I do feel confident I would know the difference.

    Would I attempt an index card or smaller sized target at 15, probably not with a snub under the exact conditions you described.

    Since the question wasn't really about head shots though I do think people need to consider making hits , even working toward making low probability hits, at 15 yards. As Tom givens says that's really just two car lengths away (that would actually be further if the bumpers weren't nearly touching). And again doing lots of shooting and finding your limits lets you decide responsibly whether you can make a hit.

    When the other poster stated he wasn't going to use the gun to make hits at 15 yds I wasn't sure whether he was not confident in himself or was operating under the belief that one needn't prepare for such "long distance" shooting (I disagree with both the premise and also the idea that 15yds is a long shot to ask of a carry gun).
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2014
  14. conw

    conw Member

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    Double posted
     
  15. OrangePwrx9

    OrangePwrx9 Member

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    147 gr. Wadcutters, either Double-ended or bevel-base. Loaded about 10-15% hotter than what I use for target shooting, but well short of +P.

    Pie-plate accuracy at 25 yards (the gun is better than I am) translates to more-than-adequate at 7 yards. Not enough recoil to develop a flinch.

    I carry an older M37 Chief's Special Airweight. Don't want to beat it up.
     
  16. MICHAEL T

    MICHAEL T Member

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    +P 158 GR lead SWHP
     
  17. Phaedrus/69

    Phaedrus/69 Member

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    I bought a new Ruger LCR a couple weeks ago and got its matching Garrett IWB just a few days ago. I checked the fit of the gun for the holster (perfect) but I haven't carried it yet although I have run the gun at the range. My plan is to carry the LCR for CCW in warm weather, splitting time with my Beretta Nano.

    The carry ammo I have right now it 129gr +P Hydra-Shok JHPs. Honestly I got the ammo because Scheel's didn't have a lot of choices, not because I feel it's "the best" round. Still, the old Hydra-Shok is a good loading so I'll carry it til I find some Gold Dots of Federal Bonded. From what I have read Remington Golden Sabres are pretty good, too.
     
  18. benzy2

    benzy2 Member

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    Conw, I certainly did misread that post. My mind was putting words where they weren't. I do appologize about that.
     
  19. conw

    conw Member

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    Even if it was due to a mistake it did seem to raise a relevant point! :)
     
  20. Iron Sight

    Iron Sight Member

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    Starline cases, Speer 158s, & W231 @ +P


    [​IMG]
     
  21. skoro

    skoro Member

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    Mostly Speer 135gr Gold Dots, but sometimes Remington Golden Sabers.
     
  22. RustyShackelford

    RustyShackelford member

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    Brief answer to #112....

    The Golden Saber .45acp JHPs had a strange red-brown goo on the nickel cases, :uhoh:.

    The Golden Saber bullets looked uneven & poor quality.
    For $28.00 I expected a lot more. :mad:
    I had a limited selection to pick from in the small shop; www.Route66sportinggoods.com .

    I know the ammo firms & employees are stressed out/over worked, but they need to step up the game.
     
  23. fastbolt

    fastbolt Member

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    I remember when for some reason I used to think of the Rem HPJ/BJHP Golden Sabres would all come with pristine nickel cases and bright, shiny polished brass jackets. :scrutiny:

    Then, after seeing bins of them (cases emptied and dumped into range training & duty ammo bins for ease of use), I had more than ample opportunity to see many ten's of thousands of them offer a lot of variation.

    Nowadays, seeing some dark/mottled brass jackets, "stained" nickel cases and variable amounts of the case mouth sealant (black goo) having oozed out onto the bullets and case mouths being about as common as not ... it's no big deal. Kind of like how things changed when your second child arrived, and you just weren't quite so fussy about some things. ;)

    Now, an occasional mangled/crushed case mouth, short-loaded powder charge, inert/hard/damaged primer or overly long trimmed case (which won't chamber and let the slide/barrel go into battery)? That's still annoying, but I've had to see pallets of cases of ammo used in order to see a handful of those things come through. (Much the same with the other major ammo companies, too.)

    I don't have much in the way of the 125gr .38 +P GS loads left (from a brief period when they were available for the right price for qual ammo), but I'll continue to rotate through it for carry ammo & practice ammo until it's used up. It's a bit too costly to buy at "over the counter" prices to use in great quantities for regular practice ammo, granted, but I'd still try some to check for any signs of bullet pull in any of the Ti/Sc/PD snubs that come with a recommendation to check such things when deciding upon carry ammo. The OAL of the GS .38's seem to take up more cylinder charge hole space than some other loads.

    I don't have the notes here at this desk, but I remember when I saw an attendee (cop) at a hosted gel event back about the time the Speer 135gr +P load was first released. He pulled a lint-laden 360PD from his pocket, loaded with some really grungy 125gr +P GS loads, and tried them in the same 4-layer denim/gel block test as the new Speer 135gr load had been used.

    I was pleasantly surprised to see pretty similar results in the way of penetration and expansion compared to the new Speer load. Maybe if we'd fired a few hundred of each load we'd have seen less consistency for robust expansion from the GS load compared to the new Speer load. Dunno. No guarantees in these things, anyway, right? ;)
     
  24. TwoWheelFiend

    TwoWheelFiend Member

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  25. Drifting Fate

    Drifting Fate Member

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    The 135grn Gold Dots test out so well I keep them in all of my .38 revolvers, and even keep them in my bedside .357 as they are easier to control if the GF needs it and they come about as close to bridging that magnum gap as one is going to find.
     
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