Felt recoil of 2 3/4" vs 3" 00 Buck (12ga)

[TexasRifleman]

Currently not using a shotgun for home defense, though I have several of the type. I prefer the AR because I am more comfortable with it.

My wife wants to use the shotgun for exactly the same reason, she doesn't like the AR. I only have 12ga defensive shotguns.

Is there much difference in the felt recoil of the 2 3/4" vs the 3" with 00 Buck? Not talking Magnums here, just the standard lengths.

I do know the pellet count is quit a bit different, just wondering about the felt recoil cause I'm too cheap to buy a box of each and try it for myself

Thanks!

 

[HerrWolfe]

Unless you are cheap beyond reason, you can just buy a five shell box (or do like you said and not buy anything ).

 

[Fred Fuller]

Save your money on this experiment. Physics dictates that it must be so- a heavier payload at the same velocity out of the same gun equals greater felt recoil.

There is simply no need for 3" magnums or non-magnums in a typical HD situation- any decent 2 3/4" reduced recoil load is sufficient for the purpose. If your wife wants to use a 12 ga. as her chosen SD/HD weapon there is no reason she can't be effective with it as long as she is in good health. Make sure the gun fits her properly and that her gun mount is correct, and she will do fine with it. You can handle a short stock just fine, a too-long stock will abuse her needlessly. I am 6' 3" and our house guns (870s with 18-20" RS barrels, full length forearms and 4 shot sidesaddles) are cut down to a 12.5" length of pull so they fit my wife. I assure you she can use them just fine. My wife prefers no more weight in the front of the gun than necessary so I don't use magazine extensions on 'our' house guns- you might consider that also.

lpl/nc

 

[mattw]

yeah, save the 3" 00Buck for hunting javalina or something.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Figured that was the case but I didn't know if there was a higher powder charge in the 2 3/4" rounds that might offset it somewhat. I didn't even check the velocity to see if they were the same.
Thanks for the info!

 

[bad LT]

Also consider a semi shotgun if recoil from a pump proves to be too much for your wife (or you)

 

[The-Fly]

i can definitely tell a 3" and a 2 3/4" apart when firing them. The reduced recoil 2 3/4" 00 buck is the way to go. If you shop around you can find them cheap too. My local gun store carries ranger reduced recoil 00 buck for $1.85.

 

[backlash]

Unless you are cheap beyond reason, you can just buy a five shell box (or do like you said and not buy anything ).

That is what I did, and ohhh boy is there a difference!!!

 

[ArmedBear]

Get a box of this stuff:

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/shotshell/buckshot/managed-Recoil_express.asp

Remington Managed Recoil buckshot has the standard 9 00 pellets but at 1200 fps. This is absolutely PLENTY for HD use! Recoil will be the same as a dove load.

This is a good idea for you, too, not just your wife. Massive recoil, lots of muzzle flash, and a louder report indoors will make you a lot less effective in getting a few shots on target. A few extra pellets or 100 more fps really do nothing for you. If you are facing multiple attackers, you need quick multiple shots. Buckshot doesn't spread much at ranges under 10 yards. You won't hit both guys with one shot unless you own an 18th-century blunderbus. If you're facing a single attacker, 9 pellets will do as well as 12.

Leave the high-powered buckshot loads for people who are legally required to hunt deer with buckshot.

BTW ever shot a gun in your living room? I have. Even .22 CB Shorts are surprisingly loud. For a number of reasons, less can be more, when you're talking about home defense.

 

[asknight]

Why not the Aguila Mini-shells? They come in buckshot, and your standard shotty can load about 8-12 of them in a magazine. They're plenty stout for home defense at interior distances, IMO. Recoil of a .410, from a 12ga.

 

[ArmedBear]

Why not the Aguila Mini-shells? They come in buckshot, and your standard shotty can load about 8-12 of them in a magazine. They're plenty stout for home defense at interior distances, IMO. Recoil of a .410, from a 12ga.

Make sure they feed right in your gun before trusting your life to them, though...

 

[Andrew S]

Get a box of this stuff:

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/shotshell/buckshot/managed-Recoil_express.asp

Remington Managed Recoil buckshot has the standard 9 00 pellets but at 1200 fps. This is absolutely PLENTY for HD use! Recoil will be the same as a dove load.

This is a good idea for you, too, not just your wife. Massive recoil, lots of muzzle flash, and a louder report indoors will make you a lot less effective in getting a few shots on target. A few extra pellets or 100 more fps really do nothing for you. If you are facing multiple attackers, you need quick multiple shots. Buckshot doesn't spread much at ranges under 10 yards. You won't hit both guys with one shot unless you own an 18th-century blunderbus. If you're facing a single attacker, 9 pellets will do as well as 12.

Leave the high-powered buckshot loads for people who are legally required to hunt deer with buckshot.

BTW ever shot a gun in your living room? I have. Even .22 CB Shorts are surprisingly loud. For a number of reasons, less can be more, when you're talking about home defense.

I will second the Remingtons. Their reduced recoil slugs are softer to shoot than regular 00buck.

 

[Glockman17366]

You might also look into buying a Knoxx stock (http://www.knoxx.com/index.html).

I put the Copstock (pistol grip folder) on my Mossy 500. Helped quite a bit! I went to a folder because of the way I stow the gun...if you don't need a folder or pistol grip stock, the SpecOps would be the better choice.

 

[RyanM]

I'm not sure if anyone even makes any 3" non-magnums.

The raw recoil numbers for a 6.75 pound, 18" barreled pump-action shotgun are...

Aguila Mini-shell: 8.5 fps, 421 G's

Remington managed-recoil 00: 13.3 fps, ~663 G's

Remington 2 3/4" regular 00: 15.7 fps, ~825 G's

Remington 2 3/4" magnum 00: 19.4 fps, ~1030 G's

Remington 3" magnum 00: 22.8 fps, ~1160 G's

G's are gravities of acceleration. 1 gravity = 32.174 fps^2 at sea level.

Unless your wife is more of a man than me, I don't think she'd ever forgive you if you loaded the shotgun with 3" shells, someone broke in, and she had to shoot him.

 

[marklbucla]

Is there much difference in the felt recoil of the 2 3/4" vs the 3" with 00 Buck?

To answer the question, for me, the kick felt from 1 Federal Vital Shok 3" 00 hurts about the same as that of 5 Federal Vital Shok 2 3/4" 00s.

 

[ArmedBear]

Also, the newfangled recoil pads like Sims Vibration (also sold by Remington as the R3), Kick Eez, etc. really work. Different kinds are made of different materials, but all of them do a lot to prevent shoulder pain.

Serious clay competitors seem to swear by Kick Eez (Sorbothane like those $20 rebounding insoles for hiking/athletic shoes), but the newer Sims stuff has a good following, too.

 

[ArmedBear]

I'm not sure if anyone even makes any 3" non-magnums.

The raw recoil numbers for a 6.75 pound, 18" barreled pump-action shotgun are...

Aguila Mini-shell: 8.5 fps, 421 G's

Remington managed-recoil 00: 13.3 fps, ~663 G's

Remington 2 3/4" regular 00: 15.7 fps, ~825 G's

Remington 2 3/4" magnum 00: 19.4 fps, ~1030 G's

Remington 3" magnum 00: 22.8 fps, ~1160 G's

G's are gravities of acceleration. 1 gravity = 32.174 fps^2 at sea level.

Unless your wife is more of a man than me, I don't think she'd ever forgive you if you loaded the shotgun with 3" shells, someone broke in, and she had to shoot him.

BTW perceived recoil is non-linear. A person might shoot the managed-recoil loads all day without a problem, but feel pain and develop a flinch with one or two magnum loads. There's a threshold of recoil tolerance for each person. Pass the threshold, and every fps feels like a lot more.

Basically, the 3" magnum will knock you backwards and likely have the same exact effect on an intruder as the 2 3/4" managed-recoil stuff. And you can shoot again, with the lighter load.

 

[The-Fly]

i think the key to recoil in shotguns is a GOOD recoil pad. I put a $20 limbsaver from walmart on mine and its wonderful. I can blast the high powered stuff, even 3" slugs, all day and it doesnt bother my shoulder at all. I do notice it takes me longer to get back on target with the big stuff, which is why i use the reduced recoil 00B for home use.

 

[marklbucla]

i think the key to recoil in shotguns is a GOOD recoil pad.

True Dat.

Just get yourself a Knoxx stock and cut recoil even further. That is, if you can still get it to feed properly.

 

[ArmedBear]

The laws of Physics still hold, however.

A shotgun with a nice recoil pad won't sting your clavicle (you DO put the gun on your upper pecs, right? NEVER shoot it with the stock out on your arm unless you really hate your rotator cuffs and don't want to shoot well). But it will still knock you back just as far, it will still be displaced just as far by recoil, and it will still take just as long to get back on target as it would without the pad.

The Knoxx or some other suspension system is more than a pad, so it will actually absorb more of the recoil travel, but you'll still get back on target faster with a light load than a heavy one.

If your wife weighs, say, 120, a given amount of recoil energy will have a far greater effect on her than if you weigh, say, 200, simply because of the laws governing elastic collisions. She might be the strongest, most athletic, most pain-tolerant person in the world, but a given amount of recoil energy will still have more effect on her than on a big guy.

So, a recoil pad is a great thing. But your shooting will still benefit just as much from a low-recoil HD load.

 

[TX35]

True Dat.

Just get yourself a Knoxx stock and cut recoil even further. That is, if you can still get it to feed properly.

Hey Mark, have you resolved the feed issues yet? I've recently bought a Spec Ops stock, I just have not had time to fire it yet....

 

[The-Fly]

The laws of Physics still hold, however.

A shotgun with a nice recoil pad won't sting your clavicle (you DO put the gun on your upper pecs, right? NEVER shoot it with the stock out on your arm unless you really hate your rotator cuffs and don't want to shoot well). But it will still knock you back just as far, it will still be displaced just as far by recoil, and it will still take just as long to get back on target as it would without the pad.

The Knoxx or some other suspension system is more than a pad, so it will actually absorb more of the recoil travel, but you'll still get back on target faster with a light load than a heavy one.

If your wife weighs, say, 120, a given amount of recoil energy will have a far greater effect on her than if you weigh, say, 200, simply because of the laws governing elastic collisions. She might be the strongest, most athletic, most pain-tolerant person in the world, but a given amount of recoil energy will still have more effect on her than on a big guy.

So, a recoil pad is a great thing. But your shooting will still benefit just as much from a low-recoil HD load.

Agreed, which is why for home use (where i want to be able to fire as quickly and accurately as possible) i use winchester ranger reduced recoil 00 buck.

 

[marklbucla]

Nope. It could be a number of things that are just out of spec for the specops stock, but the gun works fine with a regular stock. At worst case, I can still shoot it, but I just have to stop and rack after each shot instead of doing it all in one motion.