FEMA Supports Gun Confiscations after Kansas Tornado

[Flyboy]

http://reason.com/blog/show/120276.html

Katrina Redux

Jesse Walker | May 18, 2007, 10:14am
Remember the immediate aftermath of Katrina, when officials insisted on turning away willing volunteers? According to Dave Strano, a left-anarchist activist who wanted to help out after the recent Kansas tornado, the system hasn't changed much:

Shortly after the tornado, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) took control of the recovery efforts in Greensburg. The United Way became the coordinating organization for relief volunteers but, after orders came from FEMA, halted the flow of volunteers into Greensburg. FEMA demanded that Greensburg needed to be "secured" before the area could be opened to real recovery efforts.

So, as hundreds of recovery volunteers were told to not come to Greensburg by the United Way, hundreds of police from dozens of Kansas jurisdictions were mobilized to enter the city and establish "control."

Reports coming from the recovery effort in Greensburg had been woefully short of information. We made multiple phone calls to the United Way and other aid agencies, and were told repeatedly not to come, that "We don't need volunteers at this time." We were told that if we wanted to help, we should just make a financial donation to the Salvation Army or United Way.

The authorities eventually allowed volunteers to enter, as long as they reported to a tent operated by Americorps. Strano and his comrades signed in, then wandered the city.

After a short while, we met with several people evacuating belongings from their home. They told us that FEMA had been there for a week, and that all FEMA could offer them was a packet of information. The packet, however, had to be mailed to the recipients, and they had no mailing address!

More FEMA fun:

In the immediate recovery after the storm, FEMA and local police not only worked to find survivors and the dead, but also any firearms in the city. As you pass by houses in Greensburg, you notice that some are spraypainted with how many weapons were recovered from the home. This is central Kansas, a region with extremely high legal gun ownership. Of the over 350 firearms confiscated by police immediately after the storm, only a third have been returned to their owners [emphasis mine].

The whole dispatch is here.

After Katrina, Neille Ilel watched some other anarcho-volunteers lend a hand in New Orleans. Her Reason dispatch is here.

More Reason Katrina coverage here.

 

[K3]

Color me not surprised. This type of thing will occur more and more frequently.

 

[mons meg]

This is not even the same as Katrina. The local LEOs were gathering the weapons they found in the rubble, not forcing people to turn them over.

 

[Zoogster]

Yeah let's not get confused over the difference between forcible siezure/confiscation and gathering from "abandoned" homes/rubble. Neither is good, but one is far worse. One is trying to keep them out of the hands of thieves and looters by stealing them and the other is taking them from people that have immediate need of them by force.

One thing to consider here is could you legaly even carry or bring the firearms you may want for self defense with you if your home or possibly vehicle was damaged? Legaly many places you have to have them in a vehicle for transport, and in such a manner as to make you no safer than without them. If you found yourself suddenly living in rubble or out of a vehicle short term would you be unable to legaly have a means of defense when needed most?

If your home is rubble, then possession of a firearm, even in the rubble would probably be openly displaying or brandishing of a longarm (assuming your not living somewhere that you can walk outside with a firearm without any hassle). I imagine since not indoors illegaly concealing might come into play as well. So your right to protection may cease to exist or be severely limited once you lose a wall or the roof of your home.

 

[mons meg]

I read that the local LEOs were going out of their way to reunite guns and owners, and that sometimes the guns are not found in the rubble but elsewhere...this being a tornado, after all. I'll try to find the link. Of course, this was before FEMA was in change.

 

[ndolson]

What defense does one have to a gun grabbing "official" now that the mandate has been set that no "gun grabbing" shall occour in disaster areas?

I have a feeling "No, you can not take my firearm" won't get you very far if there is LEO/National Guard coming around regardless...me thinks nothing.

 

[Jeff White]

One is trying to keep them out of the hands of thieves and looters by stealing them and the other is taking them from people that have immediate need of them by force.

How is securing them stealing them? I suppose the keys, license plates and other things of value I've found laying around town over the years and taken to the station and had dispatch try to contact the owners was stealing too? What about valuables we've secured in the evidence room after a fire or other damage to a home that would take a couple days to repair? I guess instead of serving the public, that's stealing from them too. the next time someone asks us too, I guess I'll just say that would be stealing and illegal.

Would it be better to leave that stuff lay in the rubble for the looters so it might never be recovered?

Sheesh.......

Jeff

 

[Zundfolge]

I'm with Jeff on this one ... I think some people are trying to spin this into an anti gun thing when in fact its the opposite.

The local authorities are collecting valuable property for people who's lives have been destroyed ... for some people the guns taken out of the rubble may be the only material things left from their old lives.


I'm more pissed about the governess trying to make political points about Bush and the Iraq war over this than the guns being collected.

 

[KINGMAX]

FEMA = FEMA, not BATF, ATF, DEA or any other name. FEMA - just stuck to doing your job, its all you can do to do that.

My blind Aunt and Cousin live in Columbia Mississippi, not far from New Orleans, thay got squat in Columbia, everything went to New Orleans during the 'Katrina' malfunction.

 

[mons meg]

I think I originally caught this off a blog, probably Of Arms and the Law, but here's a quote from KAKE news in Wichita:

Following the storm, guns were found throughout the city and law enforcement determined it best to collect the weapons to ensure everyone’s safety and to ensure the safekeeping of the property for the owners. The total number of guns collected was 349. Thursday, 140 were returned to residents who came to claim them. Friday, 38 firearms were returned.

Remember, the town was basically leveled. And it seems that the weapons were being promptly returned within days without a bunch of BS hoops to jump through. Kudos to small town Kansas law enforcement.

 

[KINGMAX]

Sounds like some of the LEO in that town may have a bit of common sense.

 

[748]

Like to see them take reg. NFA weapons from some one.
If they came to my house and told me to hand'em or else I would call the ATF afterwards and report them as stolen. Because they were.
When some one removes a NFA weapon form its regestered owner, that some one is going to jail for a long time. If the cop(s) take a NFA weapon form some one they better have a real good reason for doing so.
If my house is a pile, I have a CCW. And so far open carry in my part of VA at my house in my yard I hardly get strange looks. When I do get a strange look, its that you must be a cop look.

It may be a good idea to grab up all the guns that are not clearly controled by a person.

 

[mons meg]

It may be a good idea to grab up all the guns that are not clearly controled by a person.

I think strewn about the countryside might just meet those criteria.

 

[ilbob]

I am not thrilled with the idea of unsecured guns left laying around. Seems like securing them until they can be returned to their owners is a good idea.

 

[Titan6]

only a third have been returned to their owners

So they are being returned? What is the issue? The owners are lucky they are getting them back at all considering all the damage. I doubt they will get all of them back on account of the huge tornado that destroyed the town and all.

 

[Autolycus]

I agree with picking them up if there is noone to claim them. However I would protest if the polcie were forcibly doing that. In this case I understand the LEOs taking them for safekeeping.

That article in Reason Magazine was a great article by the way.

 

[jnojr]

How many things other than firearms were "secured" by the police?

Did they go around "securing" vehicles, jewelry, TVs/stereos, etc?

 

[.cheese.]

the more I read about this, the more I'm thinking this was a pro-gun effort... not anti. They weren't confiscating them, but rather making sure they were either in safe hands, or the hands of their owners if possible.

But I could be wrong.

 

[Zoogster]

Yeah I agree with them picking them up for safekeeping. However digging through the property of someone while it is on private property to find them seems wrong. I would much rather return to my property and salvage my stuff than be told for my own good the authorities have decided to handle everything.

I am just reminded of the people in Katrina who lived in the neighborhoods and areas not damaged by the flood and were told they legaly had to evacuate the area leaving thier perfectly fine home to the looters and criminals. So I get visions of authorities telling people they cannot go home, go to thier own property etc, and yet digging through the area taking firearms. That would upset me.

 

[Autolycus]

Originally posted by jnojr:
How many things other than firearms were "secured" by the police?

Did they go around "securing" vehicles, jewelry, TVs/stereos, etc?

That is a good point. I wonder if they did this as well. It would lend a lot more credibility to the argument that this was not a gungrab in disguise. Though my gut instinct is that it was not.

 

[K5mitch]

Zoogster:

Although not preempted statewide, Kansas is an open-carry state. There are a handful of cities and town which have codified laws against open carry (Wichita, Topeka, KC KS).

http://www.ksccw.com/site/showthread.php?t=2493

There is a link to a local board discussing alleged confiscations.

Guys,
Time to stop this rumor -- The NRA blew this one all out of proportion without having any facts. The article in this mornings Eagle pretty much tells it right. I know Sherriff Chinn personally, and he's one of the good guys. There is NO gun confiscation going on in Greensburg!

w0eb -- moderator
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From the Wichita Eagle -- Friday, May 11, 2007

NRA e-mail brings new headache to Greensburg

Pratt County Sheriff Vernon Chinn, the law enforcement commander on the ground in Greensburg, says he has enough to worry about without the NRA spreading rumors.

With emotions running high following the devastating tornado, Chinn says people have shown up at the command site upset about stories of police taking away people's guns.

Chinn says officers have collected guns flung about in the storm, and though few of them are salvageable, officers are simply securing them.

"They aren't making things easier out here," Chinn said of the National Rifle Association. "They're manufacturing new issues for me to deal with. You're creating more of a distraction with rumors like this."

The NRA posted a message Tuesday on its Institute for Legislative Action Web site that it also sent by e-mail to its Kansas members. It was picked up by other online discussion boards.

"The National Rifle Association has received a number of reports of ongoing firearm confiscations in Greensburg, Kansas," it reads.

"We are currently gathering as much information as possible to verify these claims. If the reports are true, your National Rifle Association will act swiftly to correct this injustice and stop any unconstitutional gun confiscations.

"If you have any information regarding gun confiscations in Kansas, or know any law-abiding citizen who has had their firearms confiscated, please contact NRA immediately at 1-800-392-8683."

Ashley Varner, spokeswoman for the Virginia-based NRA, said she wouldn't equate the e-mail with rumor-mongering.

"We were acting on behalf of our members to find the truth," Varner said. "We were responding to people's fears that their firearms were being taken."

Varner said from what the NRA has gathered, police officers were making the firearms available for later pickup.

"I don't want my words to lead anyone to believe the NRA has come to any conclusions yet, because we haven't," Varner said. "We are still gathering information at this time, we are still talking to people on the ground."

Meanwhile, Chinn says he has to deal with all the recoil.

"We've had people come over to the weapons trailer getting irate," he said. "They're saying things like, 'What right does law enforcement have to come in here and confiscate weapons?' "

Chinn said that Saturday, police hauled in two pickup loads of guns and documented what addresses the guns came from so owners could claim them.

"We found a whole locker, a safe we had to order a forklift to raise, and after KBI confirmed who owned it, we released it to the owner immediately," he said. "When we could safely do it, we did it....

"I'm tired of the NRA trying to portray us as some kind of villain out here."

The posting had generated a robust conversation by the time I saw one of the discussion boards.

One person referenced a Montana bill that would prevent firearms from being confiscated during an emergency. "There are a lot of states passing these laws, and it sounds like something that they all need," the posting read.

Another person, a voice of reason, said considering the value vs. the risk of despondent, distraught and newly homeless people carrying firearms, "It may make sense to ask law abiding folks to put aside their firearms and trust the authorities to protect them....

"There are times when things are so abnormal that normal rules don't apply well. An obliterated town may be one of those times."

I realize the NRA may not have intended to cause a stir, but it did, and it made already difficult police work even more difficult.

Next time, it might be better to ask questions first, and then shoot off e-mails.

 

[.cheese.]

Zoogster - that may not have anything to do with firearms. That may simply be they're worried about people getting injured while digging around what remains of their house, say on a piece of glass, broken wood, metal, etc.

 

[Travis McGee]

Another angle on this: guns are pretty darn tough! The entire house is rubble and kindling wood, scattered over an acre, and there in the middle is John Smith's Glock, undamaged, unscratched, ready to fire!

 

[freakazoid]

K5mitch - We are open carry? I thought that it is just concealed? I know that, at least in Wichita, businesses can post up signs saying that guns are not allowed. <_<

 

[K5mitch]

There is no state law against open carry, therefore it's legal. Counties and municipalities can still regulate. I've routinely open-carried when camping at Cheney. Derby used to have ordinances against open carry, but I think they got repealed in 2006. This next week I'm going to the Clerk's office to read the "Official" code to find out for myself.

I hate to keep linking to other websites like this, but http://opencarry.org/ will show you a map similar to packing.org's concealed carry map.

Open carry in KS is not a new thing

Edit (for a quote):
"A right not exercised is a right lost"