FFLs - first ever problems

[Palladan44]

I've used various FFLs over the years, and have always had a decent experience. They call me when the firearm is delivered to them Immediately and set up the transfer. No hiccups.

I recently purchased a firearm online, and selected a registered FFL that was listed closest to me by address. I inquired ahead asking if this FFL was accepting transfers, and the response was YES- Problem #1 his address wasn't even correct, and as it turns out his address isn't accurate and ended up getting shipped to his actual address 40 miles away. Bummer. The whole point of using him in the first place, negated. Unfortunate but not the end of the world. But it would be nice to know where my thousand-dollar gun is actually going. Is there breaking of rules/laws here?

The gun was delivered 3 days ago, and signed for by someone.....they never bothered to call me or anything like that. So, I called them up at the listed number yesterday.... No answer, no call back. I emailed and sent a message via his website with no answer. Frustrating.

I called again today and he answered. Said he won't be "at the shop" at all this week because he's "out on the road" traveling all week. (So, I assumed it was a cell # I had reached him on, being "out on the road" and all) and said I could text him my name, number etc. my info to call me back when he returns to get this done....and responded that it wasn't a cell # and to just email him (at the same email address I already sent it to with radio silence) OK, he must be "out on the road travelling" with a land line that doesn't accept texts? Real believable story.
And at the end of the conversation, we didn't settle on a time or date to meet for the transfer. He left it with "email me your # and name and I'll call ya later..." and I just said I already did that 3 days ago. But OK thank you.

Also, I'm assuming nobody at his [name of gunshop] LLC can do an FFL transfer? Someone with a name that I have electroncally signed for it.... I'm guessing he's the only one who is certified/qualified to do the transfers?

Any rules on timing/layover of transfer? We're looking at possibly him sitting on this for 10 days.

I'm mostly just angry the address was wrong. Nobody called me, I had to call them....no response to emails, and still didn't settle on a time to meet....

To top it off, I normally might have more patience, but the firearm is a really nice Colt 1911 and I've been anticipating its arrival for awhile.
I'm sure patience on my end will be the key here, but I'm just curious of what the laws are and would like to know that I'm protected against possible shenanigans (I don't expect this is, but it entered my mind) Like, I get a call a few days from now and he says he never saw the gun in the first place?
This gun is officially in his custody and if it's lost or stolen, who's it on?

 

[dweis]

The treatment you describe is unjustifiable from both a business and ethics point of view. If I was in your place, and I did not Get a from reasonably soon date and time for the transfer, I’d tell the FFL you were going to report it to the FFL so that, if the gun goes astray, you will have a record with the ATF that reported you have not received from the FFL. One thing I would not do is wait much longer. The more elapsed time the more problematic it could become.

 

[CapnMac]

While an issue, and a serious one, obviously, there's not much we can cite out of Legal Code to address this.

That's even if an attorney is needed to start action to recover one's goods. It's simply outside of the scope of THR and/or Legal.

Now, it might be better in General, if as an object lesson in going to visit an actual LGS or FFL and develop a relationship, first.

 

[edwardware]

Sounds familiar, and I don't use those FFLs anymore. I've found a couple reliable semi-competent shops l, and pay the extra $5-10.

 

[dogtown tom]

... Problem #1 his address wasn't even correct, and as it turns out his address isn't accurate and ended up getting shipped to his actual address 40 miles away.

His address isn't accurate according to who?
If you are going by the address on an internet retailers website, the receiving FFL likely has no control over what Gunz R Us puts on their website. I don't.
Understand that most of the internet retailers will just show dealers they shipped to in the last three years. If the dealer moves since that last shipment its the fault of your seller for not verifying the correct address through the FFL EZcheck:https://fflezcheck.atf.gov/FFLEzCheck/

Bummer. The whole point of using him in the first place, negated. Unfortunate but not the end of the world. But it would be nice to know where my thousand-dollar gun is actually going. Is there breaking of rules/laws here?

Only if the dealer you chose to receive your firearm is not licensed to conduct business at this new location.
An FFL is good for one location only. If Gunz R Us has a second location.....he will have a totally separate FFL for that location.(a licensee can also conduct business at a gun show)

The gun was delivered 3 days ago, and signed for by someone.....they never bothered to call me or anything like that. So, I called them up at the listed number yesterday.... No answer, no call back. I emailed and sent a message via his website with no answer. Frustrating.

I called again today and he answered. Said he won't be "at the shop" at all this week because he's "out on the road" traveling all week. (So, I assumed it was a cell # I had reached him on, being "out on the road" and all) and said I could text him my name, number etc. my info to call me back when he returns to get this done....and responded that it wasn't a cell # and to just email him (at the same email address I already sent it to with radio silence) OK, he must be "out on the road travelling" with a land line that doesn't accept texts? Real believable story.
And at the end of the conversation, we didn't settle on a time or date to meet for the transfer. He left it with "email me your # and name and I'll call ya later..." and I just said I already did that 3 days ago. But OK thank you.

My FFL shipping address is a UPS Store. They sign for and store packages until I can pick them up.
Once the gun is in my hands I'll email the buyer pickup info. But until I'm holding it, I don't have it. Soooo........it's possible that this dealer does the same.

Also, I'm assuming nobody at his [name of gunshop] LLC can do an FFL transfer? Someone with a name that I have electroncally signed for it.... I'm guessing he's the only one who is certified/qualified to do the transfers?

Is he home based or a brick & mortar? Google his address and look. If he's a one man operation, then there's your answer. If he has employees, he likely has sole responsibility on his recordkeeping.

Any rules on timing/layover of transfer? We're looking at possibly him sitting on this for 10 days.

Nope. While there is a time requirement for a licensee to log the acquisition of the firearm into his bound book, there is no requirement at all that he transfer to the customer until he feels good and ready.

I'm mostly just angry the address was wrong. Nobody called me, I had to call them....no response to emails, and still didn't settle on a time to meet....

Well, if the dealer you chose is a one man operation, he couldn't call you because your name and phone number are inside the box. Once the box is in his hands, he'll more than likely open it, find your phone# and call you.

To top it off, I normally might have more patience, but the firearm is a really nice Colt 1911 and I've been anticipating its arrival for awhile.

Then why use an unknown dealer? What was wrong with your usual dealer?

I'm sure patience on my end will be the key here, but I'm just curious of what the laws are and would like to know that I'm protected against possible shenanigans (I don't expect this is, but it entered my mind) Like, I get a call a few days from now and he says he never saw the gun in the first place?
This gun is officially in his custody and if it's lost or stolen, who's it on?

Who do you think its on?
The person in possession.....the dealer you chose.
If he says he never saw the gun....well, you said "someone signed for the gun". If that person isn't the addressee or his agent, then the carrier has some splainin to do.

 

[dogtown tom]

The treatment you describe is unjustifiable from both a business and ethics point of view.

Horsehockey. There is no evidence that anything unbusinesslike has occurred and absolutely nothing unethical about the FFL being out of town. They played phone tag.

If I was in your place, and I did not Get a from reasonably soon date and time for the transfer, I’d tell the FFL you were going to report it to the FFL so that, if the gun goes astray, you will have a record with the ATF that reported you have not received from the FFL. One thing I would not do is wait much longer. The more elapsed time the more problematic it could become.

FYI........ATF won't care in the least. They have no authority to require an FFL to return phone calls or be at his shop. They'll tell you its a civil matter. The FFL in the OP's story has not violated any law or regulation by being out of town.

 

[Palladan44]

It's on me for not sending to my usual guy- I just didn't get a response from him (maybe hes on vacation or whatever)....so I went through the FFL "e-rolodex" so to speak that Gunbroker offered, and picked the first one. They were ordered in proximity to me. I figured 6 of one half dozen of another, and picked the one closest. Lesson Learned.
I understand there's nothing in it for this guy other than 20 or 30$ I'll never use an unknown fly by night FFL again.
Dogtown Tom, thank you for an insiders perspective.

I'm just anxious to receive this gun, and had the "hunch" there would be hang-ups with this guy....and It's just it that much worse when your hunch is right....

 

[crestoncowboy]

I use a shop i like. Drive by 4 or 5 to get there. 1 brick and mortar store and the rest are at home guys. Last one I ordered was 35 dollars though and they have dumb hours. Way more to transfer than some closer ones. I have a new colt coming to them in a few days, if they have went up more I may well choose a new one. Stories like you make me hesitant. But the closer ones have been there for years so I may risk it.

Your story may just be a perfect storm of bad timing. May not be. Idk

 

[Palladan44]

I'm one to have a plan for the "what if" situations...
What if this guy reports having not ever seen the firearm, despite it being signed for by a named person?
I'd be going straight to the P.D. of the municipality the FFL is in and reporting it.
I could see them possibly just saying it may have been stolen... some Bologne I'm sure happens time to time.
Stealing property is one thing, but stealing a firearm is next level and I'm sure would be investigated.

Are they liable to lock up the firearm in a safe while holding it? For all I know it's sitting on a kitchen table or garage open to access to anyone.
Is it currently "their" property or "my" property, and if it is stolen, who's responsible for that?
Would it just be a .....I'm sorry man, you're S.O.L. sorry, better luck next time?

I know it's not bad, but hearing the tone this guy used with me, I have a bad feeling. I don't trust this situation whatsoever.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Not seeing the legal issues.