Finally a gun rag gets it right!

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Okiecruffler

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Actually bought a SHootIng Times mag yesterday, my first in probably 18 months. Bought it just for the military rifle shootout, Mauser K98 vs. the Mosin 91/30. Wouldn't you know it, the Mosin won in accuracy, sights, smoother action, and just all around "feel". Sure they mentioned some things they didn't like, some sissy girly man complaints I'm sure. Long live the greatest battle rifle ever created! And those of you who disagree...
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Just Bring It.
 
the Mosin won in accuracy, sights, smoother action, and just all around "feel"
Click to expand...
Accuracy? Sure, with how big of a sample size? The Mauser is more inherintly accurate although it varies with ammo type and individual guns.

Sights? The MN Sights are definitely better defined.

Smoother action? Not really. Sure, the bolt goes forward and back faster because the gun is looser fit, but lifting the bolt handle is much more difficult.

Feel? How objective is that?

I like my MN, don't get me wrong, but to say that it is the better gun is a bit of a stretch. If I had to go to War, I'd go with the the ENFIELD! They didn't test that one, now, did they!?
 
I like my Mosins and my Mausers. FWIW, though, I have apertures on my Mausers (Williams on the Swede carbine, Mojos (front and back) on the M48) . . . and I've never seen it necessary to update the MN sights.
 
Sample size of ammo was 7 for the Mosin, heck they even let the Mauser shoot 9 types just to give it an edge. Didn't help.

As far as quickness of action goes, I'm alot faster with the Mosins than with my K98, however that edge goes away if I'm shooting any of my straight bolt mausers. Never had any trouble lifting the bolt on any of my mosins. Enfeilds, I just don't get. To me the cocking on closing thing just feels wrong. Granted I don't shoot mine that often, so perhaps with work I could get used to it. I will give them the edge in the looks department tho'.

Feel, sure that's objective, but I have never handled a mauser that has the balance of a 91/30. Once you get into the mosin carbines (especially the M44) that goes away.

Interesting info on the mauser ammo. I often heard that Turk ammo is hotter, and if you shoot it you know it is, but they actually chronied everything. All of the mauser stuff ran between 2400-2600, except the Turk which averaged 2913fps. The Bulgarian 7.62X54R that I typically use was the hottest of the surplus mosin ammo running around 2705fps while the commercial wolf stuff runs around 2722.

Kinda a neat article if you're like me and a fan of old war horses. Would like to have seen an Enfield in the mix and a Springfield perhaps.
 
Prattle on about which is the faster turnbolt all you want...

...ain't none of them as slick as the K-31. I'll empty 6 rounds before a Mosin or Mauser goes through 5.
 
Reminds me of a piece I read on the French MAS 34. It devoted a couple of paragraphs to the "clever" way the cruciform bayonet is carried reversed in the stock.

Hmmmm . . . no comment about how useless a cruciform bayonet is, of course, or how much weight is added. :(
 
The Mauser used in that article was in awful shape. Look at the photos!
Had the writer used a M '98 made in less hurried wartime production, and had it been better preserved, the Mauser would have done better.

Just LOOK at those made from about 1900-1942 or so. Those made for South American countries or Iran, etc. in the 1930's are masterpieces of the gunmaker's art. Even the Yugo examples made about 1948 that are featured in today's market are usually nice, although they don't compare in detail with a Mauser Standard Modell from 1934-until the war.

Lone Star
 
"The Mauser used in that article was in awful shape."

That confused me abit. In the article they stated the mauser came from Century and was in "good" shape. The mauser in the pics is fair at best. Still I say...:neener:
 
Bought it just for the military rifle shootout, Mauser K98 vs. the Mosin 91/30. Wouldn't you know it, the Mosin won in accuracy, sights, smoother action, and just all around "feel".
Click to expand...

I wouldn't put much stock in what that gun writer says, he always picks the COMMIE guns!! There was an article in Rifle magazine, where he claimed the Russian Dragunov was better than a scoped M14.

I have noticed his penchant for the COMMIE guns over anything else, now for quite a while now. He seems to write for all the gun magazines.



I think Dave is a ****** bag, and I can't stand him!
 
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Actually his sample size is 1

I have a Mauser that will shoot 4-6" groups at 100 yards. My husband has a 91/30 that will keyhole bullets all day long into an area the size of a large pizza at 25 yards.


I could not from that conclude that the Mauser is a superior weapon to the Mosin. The Mosin was just used and abused. Procured before we knew what to look for.

Now if he had the same results with 10 Mausers and 10 Mosin's, then it would be more worthwhile. I read the same article and this was first conclusion I drew.

I own three Mausers (four if you include the '03A3)and three Mosins (1 POS russian 91/30, one like new Russian M44, and one sweet Finnish M39) The M39 will accuracy wise beat out any Iron sighted rifle I own. But I would never in a million years classify any of my Mosin actions as smoother than any of my Mauser actions.

Of course, this is just one persons opinion.
 
A friend of mine told me about the article. I agreed with him based on the guns I own.
I don't really like the 98 Mauser at all.
I have two 91/30s. One is a piece of crap, the bore measures .318". The other one I have is a jewel. It is a real shooter.
I don't agree about the smoothness of the actions. My 91/30s arn't all that smooth. Of course there is nothing as smooth as my 1903.
 
all this testing is worth nothing.

have any of you ever tried to load MN or K98k in the cold? i mean, at about 0F (-18C)? especially if you ran out of the stripper clips and your arms are almost frozen? My experience says that K98k with its two-row mag and rimless ammo is loaded much easier and faster than MN with its damned rimmed ammo and that stupid cartridge stop in the mag. This damned part tended to broke in most unpleasant moment of battle, resulting in instant jams and FTFs.
Nobody knows how many russian soldiers ended KIA or WIA because of this "feature".
 
Call me strange but I never really fell for MNs. The bolt is smooth but cocking is another story. The balance, the grip and the overall feel of a Mauser is better for me and the sights on the MN are only marginally better. Maybe when my eyes go(Or go farther, I should say. I never could see...) I'll feel differently. Accuracy is a toss-up. All things being equal, I shoot both well. As mentioned, rimmed ammunition presents some problems. And Mauser strippers are just easier to work. I like the bolt strip better.

That said, I'd love own a Nagant or five. :D
 
One simple question to ask is -- can you buy new-made sporting MNs and Mausers? In the case of the MN, the answer is no, but in the case of the Mauser, there are many companies making them right now.

There has to be a reason for that.
 
Having several mauser and M/Ns I disagree with the mentioned article.

My mauser actions are far more accurate and easier to cycle.

The reason many manufacturers have adopted the mauser action is that the double locking lug design makes mauser actions the safest bolt action.

I also agree with Langenator's assessment of the Swiss K-31. I, too, probably could whip out the six rounds (seven if the chamber is loaded when a full magazine is inserted) in the time it takes to fire five MNs. Now, could I match the speed of, say my Swede M96, mausers? I'm not sure.

I can, however, positively say that, accuracy wise, the Swede will outshoot any MNs I've seen. In fact there is only one gun I own that can outshoot the M96 and those are my Springifeld Remington 1903A3s.
 
Okay, okay

I started this kinda tongue in cheek, I pay no attention to gun rags, only buy maybe one a year not including SHotgun News of course, but since I have everyone's attention, lets do this...
I have several examples of the actions in question and I know many of you do as well. So we have a pretty good sampling, let's see what we've got. I'll even throw the Enfeild in althought I have no experience with the no.4.

Mosin 91/30
Sample size: 6

Accuracy: I have 2 that will consistantly do 5 shots in to 1.5 inches at 100yrds with Bulgarian surplus ammo. 3 that will hold under 3 inches, and 1 that has seen more key holes than a locksmith. None of these has been recrowned or otherwise modified.

Action: I find these the quickest of actions. They are loose, but I find that a plus rather than a flaw. That short straight bolt is easy to slap up and back.

Sights: The Mosin has more than adaquate sights for anything I can see with the unaided eye. Easy to see, easy to adjust.

Overall feel: The 91/30 is the best balanced of the war horses. Easier to shoot offhand. Just feels "right" in the hand.

Feeding: Stripper clips are abit clumbsy, but I can hand feed them faster, maybe due to the large open space.

Overall look: UGLY! You can tell the soviets didn't give a flip about aesthetics. But hey, some guys like that.


Mauser K98 and varients
Sample size: 9 I've included the M48s, VZ24, basically anything close enough to the K98 to make differences nil.

Accuracy: Everyone I own will do under 4 inches, 5 shots at 100yrds from the bench with Turk surplus. My favorite is an M48A that will do an occasional 1.3" group, but that is with a scout mount scope. I just set up another for a friend (who then decided he would rather have a "modern" rifle.:rolleyes: ) which will do 1.5" groups. So I believe the accuracy is there.

Action: On the belt bolts, I feel that it's slower than the Mosins. On the straight bolt's it's almost a dead heat. The Mausers bolt is positioned better, not as far forward as the Mosin, but the action is stiffer. No doubt the action on the mauser is stronger, but just how strong do you need?

Sights: Here's the mauser's downfall. Sights are pathetic. Way too small, all but impossible to see in dim light. Put some decent irons on one and you've improved your accuracy at least 25%.

Overall feel: Holds like a 2X4, muzzle heavy. However, to be fair, even tho' I am German (half of me anyway) I have little girly hands.

Feeding: Stripper clips are faster once you learn where to push down, but it doesn't take much to shake rounds loose from the clip. Another note, It's harder to unload the mauser's mag without cycling the action. Not sure if this matters in a battle situation, but at the range it comes in handy.

Overall look: Better than the mosin, but so's a dead cat. Chunkier than my HS prom date.


Enfield
Sample size: 2, and only the no.3's

Accuracy: Both will do just over 2 inches with S&B, just a little under with handloads.

Action: I just don't like it. The cocking on closing thing makes me want to stop early. It ain't natural I tell you.

Sights: Not great, but quite useable. The No. 4 on the other hand has probably the best sights going.

Overall feel: A little quicker handling than either the mosin or the mauser, a bit muzzle heavy.

Feeding: I 've never tried clips for the Enfield, so I don't know how easy that is. Does have the removable mag and that speeds things up abit, but from what I understand it wasn't meant to be loaded that way. I figure if I was on the battlefeild I wouldn't give a kraut's butt what was meant and I'd find a couple of spare mags.

Overall look: Definately the prettiest of the 3. I espeically like the lines of the wrist.


All that being said, I shoot my mosins 10 to 1 over all the others, so of course I'm faster with them. However, if I were to pick onew for a go get meat rifle, it would be the mauser. The mosin's biggest downfall IMHO, is that cursed safety. I guess the soviets figured a soldier wouldn't have much time to be keeping the rifle on safety anyhow. Can't help but wonder how many were injured by ND's. And the reason the mauser became so commercially successful in the states is because the soviets weren't sending them over here by the ton, and every soldier coming back brought a mauser. Besides, the US government had already "borrowed" the design of the mauser.

well, I believe this is my longest post ever. I'm off tonight, no need to sleep today. Kinda rainy outside so the range will be deserted. I got 2 bandoliers of turk 8mm and half a can of 7.62X54. Guess what I'll be doing in about 30 minutes.:D Better stop and get some .303 to go along.
 
Nope

But I've only ran 20 rds thru my K31. Not a bad piece of work, but (and I can feel the flames coming) I don't consider it to be a war horse, it's never really been battle tested. Plus ammos hard to find, getting better, but still hard. The one I bought is in pretty rough shape compaired to most I've seen, but I went cheapo since all I wanted was an example of the action. Haven't really shot for groups yet, but from what little I've shot it I'm sure it will go at least 2 inches.

Just got back from a crappy day at the range. Stay away from the Mitchell Mauser scout mounts. Crappy soft aluminum. Wish I could have found a B-square like I wanted. $50 down the tubes on a rifle I didn't want in the first place. Never do a friend a favor.:cuss:

Should add, ran 40rds thru the Enfield, actually comparing it to the other 2. Nice tight groups and it didn't slam the old shoulder like the others. Maybe I'll start looking for a no4.
 
I've got 3 Mosins and 2 Mausers and the Mosins are slightly more accurate but the Mausers are much smoother action IMHO.
 
I've shot Enfields, Schmidt Rubins, Mausers and Moisins...

In my humble experience the Schmidt Rubins were the "Cats Meow" when it came to accuracy, smoothness, and Rapid Fire.

Followed by the Enfield for Rapid Fire.

My Moisins were more accurate than my Mausers...(except for my Swedish Mauser!)
 
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