Finally a gun rag gets it right!

[Catshooter]

Oldcruffler,

You might let a Enfield 2A take you to the range for a fox trot or two. Ya gotta like a 12 shot .308. I love mine.

Very nice in the shoulder-smakin deptartment, too. I have shot over 100 rounds in a session without any bruises on me girly old bod.

Ain't them ol' milsurps just to cool for school?


Cat

 

[Ian]

My No4 Mk1 Enfield and I will take on any comers in a bolt-action rapid-fire contest. That includes you, K31 shooters.

 

[DWS1117]

I bought that same rag just for that article. It was a fun read. I had been wanting to get at least one example of each. Even had plans to get a mosin untill my local gun store upped the price to $175 from $99.

I always try to support my locl gun stores but that has pushed me to apply for my C&R. $175 is way too much for a mosin.

 

[444]

"My No4 Mk1 Enfield and I will take on any comers in a bolt-action rapid-fire contest. That includes you, K31 shooters."

And does part of this contest include hitting a target ? Or just how fast you can turn money into noise ?

 

[Ian]

Whichever you want, 444.

 

[Little Loudmouth]

*puts on flame suit*

Yeah, Long Live The GARAND!!!

 

[Jason Demond]

No flame suit needed LL!
The Garand is probably one of the best Milsurp rifles out there, today!!


One of the things that David Fortier commented on, in his M14/Dragunov article, was that the m14 was twenties technology, and that the Dragunov was a much better rifle.

It sounded like he wanted to arm our troops with a COMMIE gun. That's one of the reasons I have such a low opinion of him.

Sure the M14 is old technology, but it is still a viable weapon!

 

[Okiecruffler]

Unfortunately, I don't own a Dragunov, but I've had the luck to play with several at length. Great weapon for what it was designed for. Not sure why you would compare the M14 to the Dragunov. Different guns/different roles. But that's gun writers for you.

Between the 2, I'd take the Draganov, but that's just me and I like commie guns.

 

[benEzra]

have any of you ever tried to load MN or K98k in the cold? i mean, at about 0F (-18C)? especially if you ran out of the stripper clips and your arms are almost frozen? My experience says that K98k with its two-row mag and rimless ammo is loaded much easier and faster than MN with its damned rimmed ammo and that stupid cartridge stop in the mag. This damned part tended to broke in most unpleasant moment of battle, resulting in instant jams and FTFs.

The Mosin action seems to have worked OK for the Finns at 50 below during the Winter War.

As far as Mosin stripper clips--does anyone sell REAL Mosin stripper clips, rather than the slab-sided "tool clips" that everyone is selling as Mosin stripper clips these days? Those things don't even fit the Mosin stripper clip guide.

 

[dume]

u'd have to be out of your mind to go

to any sort of 'battle" with no more than a bolt action. You can't manage better than 1 hit per second, with the best of them, on a man silhohuetter at a mere 25m, even from the bipod. With a good(scoped) AR from the bipod, you can get another hit in one second, on a fully exposed torso at nearly 300m, or a head on prone man at 200m. Misses are at least 100x as common as hits when you are being shot-at, you know., An enemy having buddies is pretty commonplace, also. So ease of repeat and multiple target engagement is a huge factor in a combat rifle, and no bolt action even comes close to a good autoloader in this regard. The bolt actions also need a $300 custom installation of luminous sights. It is dark half of the time, you know.

For those who "think" that the 223 is inadquate in power, beyond 200m, it can have more power left at 400m than a 4" 357 has at 10 ft. Nearly everyone concedes that such a 357 is a very good manstopper, loaded with 125 gr jhp's, given a good chest hit. Where would you rather have a failure to stop? At axe swinging range or at 1/4 mile, hmm? At 1/4 mile, if you are using cover properly, the enemy couldn't hit you, even before you chest hit him with the 223. You'd be safe from such a "hittee", using cover as you should be, at 100m, much less at 400m. A 75 gr V Max Horady softpoint will still expand in flesh just fine at 400m, you know, if it's driven to 2800 fps in a 24" barrel to start with.

 

[Okiecruffler]

Yeah, yeah

But no AR has the style of an old bolt action, and life is all about style. And you take your .223, I'll take my 7.62X54R and we'll start 1,000 yrds away from each other. Let's see if you can close to within 400yrds with your pop gun.

 

[M67]

... a bolt action. You can't manage better than 1 hit per second, with the best of them, on a man silhohuetter at a mere 25m, even from the bipod. With a good(scoped) AR from the bipod, you can get another hit in one second, on a fully exposed torso at nearly 300m, or a head on prone man at 200m.

I've seen people shoot 12 to 16 hits in 25 seconds on a head sized target at 150 meters with a bolt action, including magazine changes / reload every five rounds (plus one in the chamber at "fire"), from prone with a sling, aperture sights.

Sort of OT since I doubt either a Mauser or an MN will come even close to a Krag or a modern Sauer 200 target rifle in this game.

I saw an old geezer with a Krag once, who fired the last four shots in the magazine so fast that the first case was still rolling along the concrete as the fourth hit the ground - from prone with a bolt rifle, making at least some hits on a small target more than a hundred meters away. The guys who shoot this game, hold the bolt handle between thumb and index finger and use the second finger to pull the trigger.

 

[ocabj]

I think both the Mosin and the Mauser are fine rifles. I own both and I'm amazed by the accuracy of both variations, especially with handloads.

As far as craftsmanship, I definitely have to give it up to the Mauser. The Mauser has the slickest action of the two, and frankly, my VZ24 has got such a smooth bolt that it would rival a brand new modern day Remington, Winchester, or Savage.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Quote:
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The Garand is probably one of the best Milsurp rifles out there, today!!
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Strike "probably" and insert DEFINITELY!

I trained on the M1 in 1962, and bummed one off the ARVN unit I was advising in 1966, after my issue M2 carbine came to a well-deserved demise.


Quote:
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One of the things that David Fortier commented on, in his M14/Dragunov article, was that the m14 was twenties technology, and that the Dragunov was a much better rifle.
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He's wrong, of course. The M1 was state of the art in the late 1930s -- so much so that it was difficult for civilian companies to manufacture them. And the Dragonov, while designed later, is SOVIET technology.

Don't interpret that as being somehow "bad" -- but Soviet technology tends to be well behind American technology. It is difficult to say, therefore, that the Dragonov is somehow "newer" technology, and somehow "better" on that account.

The M14, on the other hand is the mature Garand -- with high-technology from the 1950s. The self-adjusting gas system, all by itself, is something to brag about.