Finally tried cleaning with water...mixed feelings about it

[Packman]

Ok, I think I get the idea. I'll ditch the oven, wipe it dry, probably using some manner of quick-drying agent, most likely rubbing alcohol. Following this, I'll go with bore butter or Ballistol.

Appreciate the help, folks.

However, since my question's been answered and I'm not particularly intrigued by the best way to blow up a distributor cap, I'll go ahead and check out now.

 

[Jaymo]

No, it does not. Neither does my '96 GT. However, the 3 Toyota 8FGCU25s that I tuned up yesterday do.
It uses the 4Y engine, the same as the Toyota "toaster" vans used, although, now it has ECS.

When I was a kid, 30 years ago, I used to use WD 40 and a lighter to kill bugs.

It works ok as a penetrating lube, but I like Kroil better.

 

[Sky]

Well I was told W=water D=displacement 40 was the number the military gave the product for it was the 40th product tested. Maybe right maybe not, however once upon a time I had a centrifugal starter spline that would not release the starter sprocket when I was at an airshow (Lycoming engine). The only thing I could find was some WD-40 which after applying liberally enough to run WD-40 out of the drain hole I was able to start the engine. I got back to the hanger and put the bird up and ran back home for some important honey dew stuff. Anyway, within two weeks it happened again. When I got back to the hanger I used some solvent on the starter spline and sprayed LPS #2 on the spline and never had another problem.

Old mechanic friend said the WD-40 was great getting rid of water, helping to remove rusty nuts from bolts (it's a penetrant) and cleaning grease from carpet in cars (?) but it ain't worth much for a lube.

 

[[email protected]]

You guys are all nuts! I've been spraying it on my toast in the mornings for years.

 

[Curator]

We use "room temperature" water and follow up with a liberal coating of Balistol to clean our muzzle loading rifles at the Scout Camp. After more than 10 years of service they are good as new. Balistol is water soluable and slightly alkalyne to neutralize the acids formed in black powder fouling. Our guns are not stored in a humidity controlled environment either--unless you consider 80-100% humidity of south Florida controlled. Of course, they do get used almost weekly so there isn't much time for rust to form

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Hell, I'vd used WD-40 a lot. Got 3 cans of it setting here at the place now. Use it for all kinds of DELETED. Knives, guns, rod and reels, removing labels, sqeaky hinges on a truck door, spraying a couple of good shots of it into the breather of a Champion 1200 watts (1500 surge) generator to get it started (worked to), just all kinds of stuff. Alway's worked just fine for me. The only thing I don't like about it is that it dissipates over a period of time, but it does what it's supposed to do and it does what it's manufacturers say's it will do and a hell of a lot more besides. It has never shellaced up on me. I like WD-40, even smell's good to me. I like 3-in-1 machine oil to. It's also good on firearms, rod and reels and anywhere a light machine oil is needed or desired. Never had it shellac or gunk up on me either. It's better in the rain or the blowing snow and ice because it's a little heavier than the WD-40....Hell, I don't see why some people on this site would complain about using a little WD-40 or 3-in-1 machine oil and then turn around and dump their firearm into a pan filled with some weird ass mixture of Simple Green and automotive transmission fluid; or some other weird assed combination they dream up, just because they're too damn lazy to set down with a cleaning rod, bore brushes, chamber brushes, toothbrushes, gun solvent, patches, and some oil and clean the DELETED gun....

 

[Sky]

Hahehehehahaha I think it all comes down to what works for you! I like the smell of it to! But have never tried it on toast!?

 

[PRM]

I've always had good luck with hot water. Never used the oven for drying. I use Gibbs to displace any water left after towel and patch drying and to lube the firearm (still use lithium grease on the base pin grooves).

This stuff is the best lube and rust preventative on the market.

http://www.gibbsbrand.net/weaponsmaintenance.html

 

[Mike OTDP]

Hmph. I clean using Simple Green and hot water, then dry thoroughly with patches. Then oil with Ballistol. I used to use WD-40 for that, but Ballistol is much better.

If necessary, I'll use Ballistol-soaked patches for field cleaning, but prefer Simple Green and copious amounts of hot water from the tap.

 

[Cosmoline]

Why all the modern degreasers and smokeless solvents? Just use the old ways. If you want extra clean, use patches with 100% mineral alcohol to buff out the bad spots.

 

[ClemBert]

Drying heat from an oven does not cause rust. More than likely you have bacterial iron in your water supply or a decent amount of iron content in your water. This is what you are seeing when you dry your firearm and it is also why it so easily wiped off with oil. It wasn't your firearm that was rusting it was the iron in your water. Do you have city water or is your water source from a well? If you used distilled water you would not have seen this.

As far as the oven goes, 20 minutes at 170 should be enough then let it cool in there 20 minutes with the oven door open.

 

[Mr_Pale_Horse]

Rusting Chemistry

The oxidation of iron begins with the loss of electrons surrounding iron in solution. These electrons produce hydroxide ions (OH-) in the presence of water and oxygen. Depending on the oxygen level, the oxidized iron will be left with a positive charge of +3 (high oxygen levels) or +2 (low oxygen). These iron ions are unstable and will further react with water and oxygen to produce iron oxide (Fe2O3), commonly known as rust.

Ions

The formation and reactions of ions are of primary importance to increasing the rate of rusting. The formation of iron ions can be increased by acid conditions and other ions (electrolytes). In acidic solutions, there are more hydrogen ions (H+). These ions draw out the electrons from iron, so increasing acidity will increase the production of iron ions and ultimately rust formation. The addition of salts to the water also provides ions that can draw out electrons from iron, producing similar results.

Temperature

Temperature is a measure of motion. At the atomic and molecular level, increasing temperatures allow an increase in the rate of interactions. This can lead to an increase in reaction rates. Increasing temperatures in the rust reaction, increases the molecular motion of water, hydrogen and hydroxide, which can increase the production of iron ions and rust formation.


Read more @ eHow.com

 

[Jaymo]

I like Simple Green for cleaning BP. It smells good, doesn't damage wood or metal finishes, smells good, isn't caustic, smells good, works well, is nontoxic, and it smells good.
I keep a can of Ballistol for all kinds of use, from wiping down my BP and smokeless guns and knives, to use as honing oil for knives, to keeping horn handled knives and powder horns from drying/cracking, to wiping down leather, to lubing the threads on my 3 piece razors and lubing the mechanisms on my twist-to-open razors (I collect old safety razors). It's good for a lot of things.
It smells good, too. I haven't tried it as a patch lube yet, because I have plenty of store bought and home made patch lubes.
Some day I'll try it.
I punched a small hole in the plastic plug that says "cut out", more like a slit made with a pocketknife. That way, I can apply it in drops and not have it dump out if it gets dropped or tipped over. I need to buy another can and cut the plug out so I can use it just for dipping patches into.
I first started using Ballistol in 1996. I bought an aerosol can on clearance at Home Depot. Now I wish I'd bought the entire case.

I bought a bottle of Rusty Duck black powder solvent on clearance at Wal Mart a few years ago and I really like it. It does a great job of removing black powder fouling and does it quickly. Almost unbelievably so.

I hear Windex is good too. I think the one with vinegar is recommended, though I don't know why the one with ammonia wouldn't be at least as effective, since ammonia is a base and would neutralize acids. I know one person who cleans his 10 gauge BP shotgun with ammonia based Windex.
The smell isn't great, though.

 

[Pyro]

My cleaning process:
Step 1: take gun apart to basics.
Step 2: throw the barrel and cylinder (with nipples removed) into a bucket of hot water and soap.
Step 3: take your cleaning tools and clean, I usually keep the stuff underwater when brushing the barrel and cylinders.
Step 4: use a few patches of commercial solvents to get the "real tiny stuff" outa the barrel and cylinders.
Step 5: let dry somewhere on a towel.
Step 6: while those dry I'll clean the frame assembly with some Q-tips, water, with solvent getting the "tiny stuff", and paper towels. Set aside to dry.
Step 7: loob barrel and cylinder.
Step 8: loob frame.
Step 9: reassemble.
I've gotten the whole process down to about an hour, I enjoy cleaning these guns so I take my time to make sure it's spotless.

 

[Jaymo]

I've thought about using brake cleaner to dry them out after cleaning. It leaves no residue. Then, I can wipe it down with Ballistol or Bore Butter.

 

[Malamute]

I use hot water to clean my percussion pistols. I use a cottage cheese container, filled 3/4 full of as hot tap water as it will get, drop the cylinder in, damp a cloth patch on a 38 bronze brush (for a 44), run the patch thru a few times, change to a cleaner one, balling up some patch on the end to clean the bottom of the chamber, moving on to get all chambers. After the cylinder and barrel are clean and hot, I slap the cylinder against my palm on a paper towel or rag to get the nipples cleared and leftover water out, run a series of dry patches through the cylinder and barrel, and set them aside for a couple minutes. I use a damp patch on the brush to clean the crud off the frame, and patches to clean the hammer and hammer groove, dry it with paper towels or rags, and set it aside. I lube the cylinder pin, lightly oil the barrel bore with olive oil, assemble the cylinder and barrel back on the frame, load the gun, and drop it back into a holster hanging by the door, or on it's nail on the wall. They get a couple drops of gun oil into the lock parts now and then, but don't get taken apart very often, as in about never. They seem to work perfectly when I shoot them, up to a year or so later in some cases, tho once in a while there's a short hangfire after sitting around loaded for a long time (many months/year or more).

Some may notice that I didnt mention oiling the gun on the outside, or inside after cleaning, other than lubricating the lockwork now and then, and olive oil in the bore. It may be the dry climate I live in, but I just havent oiled them, and they've been fine. I may wipe them down after being out in bad weather, but oil attracts dust here, so I just don't much.

I tend to get it done quickly, tho I don't recall that I've timed it. I think it may take 15-20 minutes from dirty to reloaded and done.

I wash out the dirty patches with dish soap, air dry them, and reuse the same ones mostly when I'm shooting much.

 

[alsaqr]

There is often a problem with cleaning BP guns with hot water and soap. Many folks do not get all the moisture out and the bore rusts. I've worked on a lot of guns that were cleaned using hot water and soap then put away to rust.

Many years ago I met Mike Venturino, the black powder editor of Shooting Times magazine. Mike cleans his BP guns using Windex with vinegar. Been cleaning my guns using Windex with vinegar for years now and it works well for me. Many of the SASS folks also use it.

Windex with vinegar is now called Windex Multi-Task. They also make pre-saturated wipes.

 

[Jaymo]

I've been thinking about using baby wipes for cleaning between shots.
The Windex wipes would be good.
Mike Venturino wrote an article in G&A that told about using Windex back in the early 1990s. That's where I learned about it.
Is there any good reason NOT to use Windex with Ammonia? It's what I have available and I would like to know the pros and cons BEFORE I use it.
My wife bought some Clorox brand "GREEN" cleaner(NO bleach) for me to try.
It's water, alcohol, and "coconut derived surfactant"(coconut oil/palm oil based soap)
I've thought about using that and some of the Clorox type disinfectant wipes. They use alcohol instead of bleach, they should dry things out nicely.

I may try windshield washer fluid, automotive type. It's just soapy water with alcohol.
Rusty Duck BP solvent contains ethylene glycol and monobutyl ether.
Or is that ethylene glycol monobutyl ether?
I could mix ethylene glycol antifreeze, windshield washer fluid, water, and isopropyl alcohol.
The EG acts as a wetting agent/surfactant. It reduces the surface tension of water to allow better heat transfer, or in this case, better soaking of fouling.
Alcohol has an affinity for water, absorbing some 60% of it's own volume/weight (can't remember which) in water.

Rusty Duck actually smells like isopropyl rubbing alcohol. My guess is that it contains that to allow the bore to dry faster.

That's it. I'm going to experiment with making my own BP solvents.
I'll try them out on my TC New Englander, since it already has a pitted bore.
I've removed the rust from the bore with Evapo Rust, so the bore is nice and silvery, not rusty.
That will enable me to easily see any rust if it forms.
Besides, I only paid $30.00 for it. I bought it with the pitted bore, with the intent of reaming it out to 20 gauge to use as a shotgun, since I already have 2 other .50 caliber smokepoles with pristine bores.

This way, I don't risk ruining the bore of a perfectly good one, and once I'm through experimenting I can go ahead and ream it out to 20 gauge.

 

[Pulp]

Putting the parts in the oven was the mistake. I've tried it, and also the dishwasher and gotten rust both times. I pour boiling water over the parts, then dry them and wipe with Ballistol. The canned computer air works great for blowing out small parts, and it's cheaper than a compressor.

As far as rust prevention goes, here's a link to a rust test that everyone should look at:

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/corrosion/corrosion2.html

 

[Jaymo]

The canned air is also dryer than air from a compressor, which makes it that much better. I've thought about using CO2 to blow them off. Or even scuba air.
What I like about the boiling water is that it's hot enough and heats the metal enough that it evaporates very quickly.

 

[theotherwaldo]

I've always washed 'em like a pot, rinsed 'em like a pot, dried 'em like a pot, put 'em together, and put 'em away. Worked fine for the last 34 years. Don't see any reason to change.

 

[ontarget]

I love WD-40 and my BP's are the shiniest guns in my collection of 35 assorted arms !!!!!
PS No gumming up either. Maybe you guys with the schellac or gumming problems should get those beauties out more often. Let them breathe....... fire that is .

 

[Jaymo]

I shot my 5.5" New Army Sheriff and my 20 gauge Howdah Pistol yesterday. Rusty Duck Black Off is still the fastest BP solvent I've ever used.
I first soaked them in the Clorox hippie liberal Green cleaner. Then rinsed them with hot water. It almost got them clean.
Then I used Rusty Duck. It got them totally clean and they dried out quickly.
Then it was time for the Ballistol.

The .44 is loads of fun to shoot.
The Howdah Pistol is the most fun you can have with your clothes on.
The Howdah is also EASY to clean.

48 grains of fffg followed by a lubed patch and 350 grain roundball cast from wheelweights will blast through a steel 55 gallon drum and still bury itself deep in the ground.
Has a nice kick, too.

 

[JohnKSa]

The first time I shot blackpowder I cleaned with hot water. The parts went into the hot water dirty but rust free and came out of the water a little cleaner but with fine coating of surface rust.

 

[Bluehawk]

What is mineral alcohol??
How can a gun go into hot water and come out rusty unless it's left in the water for an extended period of time??