Firearm Trace

[Praxidike]

Question: How does the ATF trace firearms?

If as a FFL:

1. You purchased a NIB Glock 19 sn# 12345 straight Glock in 2015.
2. Buyer #1 purchased that Glock 19 sn#12345 from your store that in 2016.
3. Then in 2020 Buyer #1 took the same exact G19 sn#12345 that he purchased from you, that you purchased directly from Glock NIB, back to your store to resell or transfer.
4. That same day you sell/transfer that same G19 sn#12345 to Buyer #2.
5. The next day the ATF (who got your info from Glock) walks into your store and ask you to look up a Glock 19 sn# 12345 that you purchased in 2015, and tell them who you sold/transferred it to.

Will the FFL point the ATF to buyer #1 or buyer #2?

Please only answer if you are or have been a FFL.

 

[dogtown tom]

Question: How does the ATF trace firearms?

If as a FFL:

1. You purchased a NIB Glock 19 sn# 12345 straight Glock in 2015.
2. Buyer #1 purchased that Glock 19 sn#12345 from your store that in 2016.
3. Then in 2020 Buyer #1 took the same exact G19 sn#12345 that he purchased from you, that you purchased directly from Glock NIB, back to your store to resell or transfer.
4. That same day you sell/transfer that same G19 sn#12345 to Buyer #2.
5. The next day the ATF (who got your info from Glock) walks into your store and ask you to look up a Glock 19 sn# 12345 that you purchased in 2015, and tell them who you sold/transferred it to.

Will the FFL point the ATF to buyer #1 or buyer #2?

Please only answer if you are or have been a FFL.

First, ATF ain't walking into your store on a gun trace. They call or email you the trace request.
It depends on whether he keeps a paper bound book or electronic.
If paper, he'll find buyer #1's transfer from 2016. He'll then send the National Tracing Center buyer #1's 4473. ATF will contact buyer #1 to see whether he still has the firearm. So.....buyer #1 tells ATF that he sold it back to the gun dealer. NTC then contacts the dealer with a new date and a new transferor. Dealer uses that to find the transfer to buyer #2, and emails buyer #2's 4473 to ATF.

With electronic bound books its possible to search transfers by firearm serial#, allowing the dealer to see the second sale/transfer to buyer#2 immediately.

 

[Praxidike]

First, ATF ain't walking into your store on a gun trace. They call or email you the trace request.
It depends on whether he keeps a paper bound book or electronic.
If paper, he'll find buyer #1's transfer from 2016. He'll then send the National Tracing Center buyer #1's 4473. ATF will contact buyer #1 to see whether he still has the firearm. So.....buyer #1 tells ATF that he sold it back to the gun dealer. NTC then contacts the dealer with a new date and a new transferor. Dealer uses that to find the transfer to buyer #2, and emails buyer #2's 4473 to ATF.

With electronic bound books its possible to search transfers by firearm serial#, allowing the dealer to see the second sale/transfer to buyer#2 immediately.

I recall hearing that FFLs no longer use bound books. Is that true. Thanks in advance for clearing this up.

 

[cadet3]

Dogtown pretty much summed it up.

 

[P5 Guy]

Is tracing the series of owners really worth the effort?
How many crimes are solved by the knowledge of who owned the firearm?

 

[bdickens]

Happens all the time in Hollywood.

Oh, yeah. Hollywood is fake.

 

[dogtown tom]

I recall hearing that FFLs no longer use bound books. Is that true. Thanks in advance for clearing this up.

Oh my gosh whoever told you that is a raving nutjob.
The FFL's bound book or "record of acquisitions & dispositions" is equally important as the Form 4473 for the records ATF requires a dealer to keep. doesn't matter whether its paper or electronic.

 

[dogtown tom]

Is tracing the series of owners really worth the effort?

Not IMO.

How many crimes are solved by the knowledge of who owned the firearm?

I suspect very few robberies, homicides, assault, etc are solved by a firearm trace, but there is value in verifying ownership when tracing a stolen gun recovered at a crime scene.

 

[P5 Guy]

I suspect very few robberies, homicides, assault, etc are solved by a firearm trace, but there is value in verifying ownership when tracing a stolen gun recovered at a crime scene.

Who is the gun returned to when the firearm is traced? The original buyer has sold/traded the firearm thru a face to face sale/trade without the benefit of an FFL, how is such a traced gun returned? I'm pretty certain that many High Roaders have firearms that have had more than a couple of owners.

 

[dogtown tom]

Who is the gun returned to when the firearm is traced?

A firearms trace is to trace the change of possession to the first nonlicensee. It's not about returning the firearm. If the gun was reported stolen and listed in the FBI NCIC, then likely the person who filed the police report reporting it stolen would have it returned to him.

The original buyer has sold/traded the firearm thru a face to face sale/trade without the benefit of an FFL, how is such a traced gun returned?

If not reported stolen, likely returned to the person who was in possession when LE began the trace.