Firearms in Apartments

[DCR]

Fachento, if you want to explore the castle doctrine as it may apply to individual leases in university-approved housing, try the legal aid clinic or something similarly named at the J. Reuben Clark school of law; it's usually staffed with third years and an advisor.

However, this may be one of those cases where you want to quietly walk away, mind your p's and q's, keep your guns where they "won't get sunburned," zip your lip, and not draw attention to yourself or embark on a noisy investigation unless and until a landlord attempts to evict you for allegedly violating a gun provision of the lease.

You see, they'll have to have a court hearing to evict you, and that's where you present your defense to the judge that the gun provision of the lease was contrary to the state constitution and law, and that term is therefore void because the law presumes all contracts incorporate the law of the state, and that phrase, being repugnant to the law, must be stricken, and with it gone (assuming that's the only thing you're getting evicted for) PRESTO! - you're no longer in violation of the lease, the judge frowns at the landlord for wasting the court's time, and may award you attorneys fees.

Just my $.02, anyway - why make extra work for yourself, or make your name known far and wide among landlords and university administrators, and potentially prevent yourself from even getting the apartment with your friends, when you can lay low, get exactly what you want, and have a winning plan if things go kerflooey.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

I don't know other states laws,but in Alaska I can give a tenant a 30 eviction notice for no reason.

 

[trigga]

here in wi i've never heard of such thing. my ak is under my bed as i'm am typing this. why should it matter?

 

[Fachento]

Progress - Update

I stopped by the apartment complex in person yesterday to see if I could help expedite things a little.

I spoke with the assistant manager (the person currently in charge of getting paper-work shuffled for the landlord's property) - and while I took care of some other related paperwork, she typed up the following as the 'agreement' for keeping the firearm at the apartment.

The landlord gives permission for *my name* to store a handgun in apartment #20 as long as his roommates are aware of and approve of it. Landlord will not be liable for any damages or losses to person or property caused by any Residents or any other person. Landlord shall not be liable for any personal injury to Residents. By signing below, the residents of #20 agree to the above terms.​

There are spaces for 5 signatures, printed names (and the date) for my roommates.

Upside as I see it? It doesn't specify that I have to keep it in a locked condition. I can keep it loaded if I need to. Also, it doesn't specify that I may not carry it concealed, or anything of the sort.

Downsides, perhaps? This person doesn't appear to be well versed in 'legalese' ... and wrote a very loose agreement/contract. That gives me more liberty to store/use my pistol as a CCW holder should be able to, but it also leaves things wide open for other things to go wrong, in the unlikely event of a civil or criminal suit.

On another forum, a fellow posted the following from Utah State law (apparently):

76-10-500. Uniform law.
(1) The individual right to keep and bear arms being a constitutionally protected right, the Legislature finds the need to provide uniform laws throughout the state. Except as specifically provided by state law, a citizen of the United States or a lawfully admitted alien shall not be:
(a) prohibited from owning, possessing, purchasing, selling, transferring, transporting, or keeping any firearm at his place of residence, property, business, or in any vehicle lawfully in his possession or lawfully under his control; or
(b) required to have a permit or license to purchase, own, possess, transport, or keep a firearm.
(2) This part is uniformly applicable throughout this state and in all its political subdivisions and municipalities. All authority to regulate firearms shall be reserved to the state except where the Legislature specifically delegates responsibility to local authorities or state entities. Unless specifically authorized by the Legislature by statute, a local authority or state entity may not enact or enforce any ordinance, regulation, or rule pertaining to firearms.

Enacted by Chapter 5, 1999 General Session



76-10-505.5. Possession of a dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises -- Penalties.
(1) A person may not possess any dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun, as those terms are defined in Section 76-10-501, at a place that the person knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is on or about school premises as defined in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1).
(2) (a) Possession of a dangerous weapon on or about school premises is a class B misdemeanor.
(b) Possession of a firearm or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises is a class A misdemeanor.
(3) This section does not apply if:
(a) the person is authorized to possess a firearm as provided under Section 53-5-704, 53-5-705, 76-10-511, or 76-10-523, or as otherwise authorized by law;
(b) the possession is approved by the responsible school administrator;
(c) the item is present or to be used in connection with a lawful, approved activity and is in the possession or under the control of the person responsible for its possession or use; or
(d) the possession is:
(i) at the person's place of residence or on the person's property;
(ii) in any vehicle lawfully under the person's control, other than a vehicle owned by the school or used by the school to transport students; or
(iii) at the person's place of business which is not located in the areas described in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1)(a)(i), (ii), or (iv).
(4) This section does not prohibit prosecution of a more serious weapons offense that may occur on or about school premises.

Amended by Chapter 203, 2003 General Session
Download Code Section Zipped WordPerfect 76_10_050505.ZIP 2,463 Bytes


76-10-523. Persons exempt from weapons laws.
(1) This part and Title 53, Chapter 5, Part 7, Concealed Weapon Act, do not apply to any of the following:
(a) a United States marshal;
(b) a federal official required to carry a firearm;
(c) a peace officer of this or any other jurisdiction;
(d) a law enforcement official as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
(e) a judge as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
(f) a common carrier while engaged in the regular and ordinary transport of firearms as merchandise; or
(g) a nonresident traveling in or through the state, provided that any firearm is:
(i) unloaded; and
(ii) securely encased as defined in Section 76-10-501.
(2) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1)(a), (1)(b), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to any person to whom a permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued: (a) pursuant to Section 53-5-704; or
(b) by another state or county.

Amended by Chapter 202, 2003 General Session
Download Code Section Zipped WordPerfect 76_10_052300.ZIP 2,196 Bytes


76-10-505. Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street.
(1) Unless otherwise authorized by law, a person may not carry a loaded firearm:
(a) in or on a vehicle;
(b) on any public street; or
(c) in a posted prohibited area.
(2) A violation of this section is a class B misdemeanor.

Amended by Chapter 328, 1990 General Session

These things being the case - I would still like to pursue this a bit further - seeing if there is anyone at the law school that would help me take a closer look at things. I wouldn't bother if it were part of the University's property - they make their own rules there (no CCW on campus either, since it's a private University, and State Law doesn't apply the same way). Since this is definitely not BYU property, I wonder if state laws shouldn't bear sway.

Any thoughts on what might have been missed in the 'agreement' between me and the apartment complex? Any advice in following up with this? I've been able thus far to keep things very amicable with the apartment complex management - hopefully things will stay that way, and we can get some clarifications for Uniform Law at the same time?

 

[reflex]

my thinking is that bottom line the apt property is *private* property and the owners of that property would have the right to disallow firearms on the property if posted. that said I think the apt has given you what you want. personally I would not be too concerned what may happened by my own hand in the situation, rather I would have 4 other people (if that is the correct # of room mates) to worry about. i.e. do not leave any guns unsecured in the apt no matter what you think of your room mates.