Legal ?: Can an apartment ban firearms in the lease

[withdrawn34]

Mostly, its just a lease clause. What this means is that while not legally enforceable, they could justifiably evict you if they find out if you firearms in the apartment, or ever have to fire it in self-defense.

It's not really your property - its the landlord's - so their rules go, although most states give you legal protection since your apartment is considered your home as far as your right to defend yourself.

Just keep them locked up inside and you'll be fine. Just always have a plan B because if you ever do use them in self-defense, you'll probably be evicted.

 

[jaholder1971]

They may have it in the lease, but per Va law it appears tehy cannot enforce it.

I really hate the attitudes on here from the wannabe anarcho/dictators, um, I mean libertarians who love their liberty while depriving rights to others because they can.

 

[akodo]

Private property.....they make the rules for anyone that wants to live there.

I would think they could make up any firearm restrictions they want. If he doesn't like it move out.

Okay, apartments are private property, but in many instances they are considered the RENTERS private property.

For instance, you can own a property, but you need to give 24 hour notice before entering your own property except in cases of emergency.

Just because something is placed in the lease does NOT make it legally binding. I have heard that some establishements purposely hang 'no CCW guns here' signs that do not meet legal specs because that way they can please all people...the scardy cats are content to believe no 'evil guns' are present, and the law abiding CCWer can carry as he pleases. I suspect that some leases are like this as well.

As another poster has show, part of your lease is clearly illegal. Simply ignore any illegal parts.

If this were otherwise, then landlords could circumvent any legally enacted legislation designed to protect renters by simply saying 'by signign here you agree to not enforce law XYZ against me

 

[ScottG1911]

A property owner cannot strip you of arms, however they can put it into contract that you not bring arms onto their property. but there are no legal repercutions beyond an eviction.

Upon signing a contract the dwelling becomes your legal residense/leased property. Meaning your landlord cannot enter your apartment without permission, and should not be able to dictate whether you can bring arms on the property. But they do still have certain rights to restrict reasonably destructive things out, such as pets, which can readily destroy a residense. But arms are not considered a "destructive device" well maybe a grenade and such lol.

Basic though though is, don't tell them, or very descretly cross it out before signing

 

[Truthseeker]

I can't remember the specific statute, but IIRC Virginia does in fact have one that prohibits a landlord from putting that in a lease. Need to check, but I really don't think they can do that.

 

[moccasin]

The OP asked about VA law, not other state's laws. VA law allows the property owner to determine whether or not to allow firearms on their PRIVATE property. There is no certain sign that they must use, simply telling you to remove the firearm from their property is enough, if you refuse you are then trespassing. If you know beforehand (based on a sign or other notification) that firearms are not allowed and bring them anyway, you are trespassing. The section of code quoted earlier in this thread covers government housing projects and subsidized housing (public housing), not privately owned rentals. VA law pre-empts localities enacting their own gun laws, and therefore the law against restricting firearms in public housing. If this apartment is owned by a private company they can place restrictions on firearms, if it is owned by a housing authority or government entity they cannot, if it is owned by UVA they can restrict firearms for students and employees. If you are wrong and this property is owned by UVA your friend risks being expelled if firearms are taken onto the property. Contact the Virginia Commonwealth's Attorney for further clarification.

 

[MGD 45]

Let's all remember that just because something is put into a contract or a policy, doesn't mean it will pass scrutiny through the courts. People make up contracts all the time, that are eventually overturned in a court as being illegal.

Let me ask this, could this same apartment complex put restrictions in it's contracts that would limit your religious Rights?

As long as your actions don't bother or hinder or offend the other residents, I find it hard to believe that they could restrict or limit something that is a Right under our Constitution. Sometimes, all it takes is one person to challenge this in court to have to changed.......

 

[deadin]

Let me ask this, could this same apartment complex put restrictions in it's contracts that would limit your religious Rights?

I wondered just how long it would be before this argument showed up.
Regardless of how you feel or think, firearms and firearm owners are not in the same protected class as race and religion. Maybe some day, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[Frank Ettin]

You CANNOT waive rights.....

You can indeed waive rights. For example, you can waive your right to remain silent when questioned by the police, you can permit a police search and thus waive your 4th Amendment right, you can waive you 6th Amendment right to a speed trial, you can waive your 7th Amendment right to a jury trial in a civil case, etc. These rights, as well as others, routinely get waived every day.

...This contract, the way it is worded, would get overturned in a court of law.

How do you know? Are you a lawyer? I am, and I see no reason this contract clause would not be enforceable, unless expressly prohibited by statute (such as in Minnesota).

...I find it hard to believe that they could restrict or limit something that is a Right under our Constitution....

The Constitution does not regulate private conduct; it regulates governmental conduct.

To the OP: If this is a real life issue for you, talk to a qualified local lawyer. Laws vary, and the anonymous Internet is a lousy place to try to get real life legal advice. No one here is going to be around to help you sort things out if his advice goes sour.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

You CANNOT waive rights.


no

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

and moccasin is correct vis a vis that law

 

[wickedsprint]

Retype it up to look identical, scan it if you have to.

Erase the firearms clause or add the word "illegal" to say no illegal firearms on premises.

Sign the edited one, they won't notice. Problem solved.

 

[answerguy]

If you sign the lease then you are agreeing that if you get caught breaking the rules there may be consequences.

And what might the consequence be? Asked to move out? In this case I would think 'big deal'.

 

[tube_ee]

Contract law is complicated.

That's why 80% of all lawsuits involve corporations suing each other.

You are not allowed to enforce any provision that you put in a contract, and that the other party agrees to. Even when the subject of said contract is real property that you clearly own.

Sorry, Libertarians, but that's the way it is, and it's never going to change.

"I own X" != "I can enforce any contract I want with regard to X".

So, what is the specific statute and case law controlling this particular contract in the jurisdiction where you live?

Call a lawyer. Pay for a good one. Follow their advice.

--Shannon

 

[benminer]

If he breaks the lease, and gets caught, he can be evicted, unless there is a specific law that says that clause is illegal.

How could you possibly be charged with "trespassing" in an apartment that you're paying rent on?

If the OP is really all that concerned about this he should talk to a real lawyer.

 

[moccasin]

How could you possibly be charged with "trespassing" in an apartment that you're paying rent on?

Check out section 18.2-308 of VA code. It is a misdemeanor of trespassing to posess a firearm on private property if prohibited by the owner. The lease prohibits possession of firearms on the property. PA law doesn't apply.

I thought this site would be somewhat different from others I've been to but it appears I'm incorrect. Too many zealots and craphouse lawyers.

 

[divemedic]

Except that you cannot enforce trespassing laws against a person with whom you have signed a lease. Once you rent out the property, any dispute becomes a civil contract dispute, and not a trespassing issue. (You have signed your property rights away to the lessee)

The question then becomes whether or not the contract is legally enforceable. Some contract provisions are not enforceable. Depending on your state, a 'no guns' provision may or may not be. In Florida, it is not. YMMV.

 

[Blackbeard]

This question comes up all the time. YES they can put it in the lease. YES, you agreed to it when you signed the lease. They can put a clause in that bans cherry-flavored Pez from the apartment if they want to. So what? It's something YOU agreed to.

Now, as to the consequences of violating your lease. YES they can evict you for having firearms in violation of your lease. The question is, will they want to? If you're quiet, don't bother anyone, keep your place clean and pay your rent on time, why would they ever want to throw you out?

 

[MT GUNNY]

Montana just passed a law that makes it Illegal to forbid Firearms in a rental or Motel/Hotel

 

[KBintheSLC]

I don't know the laws in VA, but here in UT they cannot legally make such rules. Under UT State law, any dwelling, whether permanent or temporary, is considered your "castle", and you can have loaded and/or concealed weapons without needing anyones permission. This applies to campsites, hotel rooms, and rental properties in which you are the lessee.

I would check local regulations... they might be in violation of the law by having such a rule.


...

 

[KBintheSLC]

This question comes up all the time. YES they can put it in the lease. YES, you agreed to it when you signed the lease. They can put a clause in that bans cherry-flavored Pez from the apartment if they want to. So what? It's something YOU agreed to.

Now, as to the consequences of violating your lease. YES they can evict you for having firearms in violation of your lease. The question is, will they want to? If you're quiet, don't bother anyone, keep your place clean and pay your rent on time, why would they ever want to throw you out?

Not necessarily... it depends on the state. You are in IL, one of the worst gun rights states in the union. The OP is in VA... not so bad. Many states have laws that specifically forbid lessors to make such rules... which would make that part of his lease null and void.

 

[Kansas Bound]

So are people saying I can write a clause saying you can not have black friends or family over. Or you can not vote.

Seems to be the same as saying you can not have a firearm in your apartment.

 

[Truthseeker]

Section 55-248.9 states a landlord cannot prohibit or restrict your tenancy in any public housing for lawful posssession of firearms. According to Alan Korwwin in Virginia Gun Owners guide, any such provision in a lease in unenforceable.

 

[Yo Mama]

Unenforceable, however, they will evict you quickly. You will have to sue for damages.

I had a friend shoot home invaders a few years back at his apartment when they kicked in his door. Legal shooting, got the gun back, and two days later he was evicted for, "having unsavory guests"! Believe me, they were not invited. They found a way to evict without saying it was due to his owning and using a gun.

Bottom line, if it happens that you use it, expect to move quickly after.

 

[Frank Ettin]

So are people saying I can write a clause saying you can not have black friends or family over. Or you can not vote.

No, because there is federal, and perhaps state, law that specifically and expressly prohibits discrimination on the basis of race and protects voting rights.

Seems to be the same as saying you can not have a firearm in your apartment.

No it is not -- unless there is law in the particular jurisdiction that would specifically and expressly invalidate a "no guns" clause in a lease.