Firing Pin For Old Wadsworth Revolver

[loadedround]

I have an old break-open 38 S&W revolver made by Wadsworth Revolver Co. that't quite similar to the old H &R's or Iver Johnson's. This revolver had a frame mounted firing pin that is missing. In as much as this revolver belong to my Grandfather who was a retired police officer, I would like to restore it(but not shoot it). Firing pins are available thru Gun Parts Inc(Numrich arms) but I do have some questions. Is this firing pin a press fit into the frame since I see no pin holes? Does this firing pin require a spring or is it free floating? One last question, the cylinder is free turning until the hammer is cocked or the trigger is almost back in double action...is this normal? Any help would be appreciated since I would like to fix this old revolver and pass it along to my son. Thanks!

 

[Jim Watson]

Have you considered the possibility that Grandpa took the firing pin out on purpose so a cheap old gun could NOT be shot? If only for show, leave it alone.

 

[loadedround]

Jim:
Please reread my post. I'd appreciate you keeping those sarcastic comments to yourself !

 

[Jim Watson]

I was not being sarcastic.
Pardon me for making a point previously published on this board in regard to obsolete minor make firearms.

Good luck.

 

[loadedround]

Regarding old obsolete firearms, I assume that you're also sugggesting that I scrap the Manhattan and Remington Beals Revolvers I am having restored also. All of us just don't collect Colts and Model 70's.

 

[Jim Watson]

Nope, not the same situation.

I would be interested to see what you are starting with and where you plan to end up in the restoration process, though.

I have really blown hot and cold on this restoration business over the years. I thought it was getting socially acceptable but there are some strange things going on. For one, Doug Turnbull derailed a lot of praise and awards for a "pristine" Marlin rifle when he revealed that he had restored it to original appearance.

 

[Old Fuff]

Quoted from Post #1.

I would like to restore it(but not shoot it).

Anyway, I'm going to have to look up the Wadsworth because I've never heard of it before. I suspect they may have been a distributor or large mail order dealer that had someone else make the revolver.

Most of these revolvers were made during the late 1890's to early 1900's, and did not have positive cylinder notches. as the trigger was pulled the hand would rotate the cylinder against the one shoulder on the notch, while a small lug on the top of the trigger would keep it from rotating backwards. Not a very secure system, but to a reasonable degree it worked.

 

[Jim K]

Hi, Loadedround,

Those frame mounted pins usually had either a cross pin or a bushing that screwed in from the front. Look for two small holes on either side of the firing pin hole that will take a spanner type wrench.

I am sorry you took Jim's advice the wrong way, but the fact is that many old guns, especially old shotguns, were deliberately deactivated by the original owners after smokeless powder came along. And some folks who restored them to firing condition have been injured when they let go. I doubt a .32 revolver is in that category, but the advice was well intentioned and should be a point to cnsider, not the occasion for nasty cracks and hurt pride.

Jim

 

[Old Fuff]

My thinking is running along the same lines as Jim's. Most of the off-brand, top break revolvers had the firing pin on the hammer. One exception was Iver Johnson. If you could post a picture, identification would be a whole lot easier.

Also, a question I should have ask sooner. Does this revolver have a conventional hammer you can cock with your thumb, or is it a "hammerless" style where the hammer is inclosed within the frame?

 

[Old Fuff]

So now the light bulb goes on.

I believe what you have is a revolver made by the Forehand & Wadsworth Co. Originally the Company was started by Ethan Allen, formally a partner in Allen & Wheelock, and two son-in-laws; Sullivan Forehand (who had also worked for Allen & Wheelock) and Henry C. Wadsworth. The firm was incorporated in 1865 under the name, Ethan Allen & Co. In 1871 Allan passed away, and shortly thereafter the company was renamed Forehand & Wadsworth. Henry Wadsworth retired in 1890 and the company continued on with a new name: Forehand Arms Co.

In 1898 Sullivan Forehand died, but the company went on until it was sold to Hopkins & Allen in 1902. H&A apparently continued to make some revolvers under the Forehand & Wadsworth name.

 

[2RCO]

Manhattan and Remington Beals Revolvers I am having restored also.

I would like to see what you are starting with as well..the "restoration" may be spending good money to make a gun worth less --which is the case likely 90% of the time.

I personally want nothing to do with restored guns. Before getting heavy into collecting I was thinking about having a Browning Shotgun that belonged to my Grandfather restored because it was pretty beat up and looked honestly craptastic compared to my personal guns. My Grandpa wasn't really to interested in Oiling guns or keeping the stocks from looking like they'd been used to battle a rabid Hippo. The more I started collecting and acquiring beautiful 98% + guns the worse this old A5 looked. Then I thought about it and the lightbulb went off. This gun looks like crap because Grandpa used it and to redo it not only would be a fair expense but would erase all trace of his use. That POS A5 that my Dad bought for him is 1962 now resides in my safe next to much more valuable guns which are all in 98% + Condition.

If I could only keep one gun it would most likely be that one.

 

[loadedround]

Old Fluff:
Your research is right on the money and I have found parts listed for it in the GPC Catalog. Since this old pistol has an exposed hammer(both DA & SA) and a frame mounted firing pin w/o any cross pins in the frame and also w/o any spanner wrench indications, I've assumed that the firing pin was press fitted. Truthfully I did get annoyed at Jim's comment since this old revolver apparantly was carried my my Grandfather as a duty weapon for 34 years and retired as a decorated Sgt in the Phila. Police Dept. He had also fought and was wounded in the Spanish American War. Being the oldest Grandchild, I remember many stories of his army and police exploits! This old revolver holds much sentimental attachment for me and deserves to be put in working order to pass on to the next generation. I own many modern firearms that I have never fired yet so I DO NOT have any intentions of firing this old timer. I'm sorry that I took offense about Jim's comments, but I didn't think he understood my situation and attachment. 'nuff said!

 

[Jim Watson]

I understand the situation quite well.
I doubt the Philadelphia PD even in Grandpa's day carried F&Ws on duty except maybe as a backup gun.
If Grandpa carried that F&W on or off duty, I am sure he made sure it would shoot, and I don't think the firing pin walked off on its own. I still consider it possible he deactivated the gun on purpose.

Anyhow, good luck in a search for parts. A lot of these old guns are being shot a little as CAS pocket pistols so there is more interest in their upkeep than there used to be.

 

[Old Fuff]

A lot of these old guns are being shot a little as CAS pocket pistols so there is more interest in their upkeep than there used to be.

Oh yes, and who do you think the cowboys want to fix them?

After getting on the right track I too looked in the Numrich/Gun Parts catalog. They list and show a hammer, firing pin and firing pin retainer pin. They also add to the confusion by showing a hammer with a firing pin on it.

I am sure that the firing pin wasn't press fitted. If it was it wouldn't work. Also there is no mention of a firing pin spring. It is possible that someone press fitted a larger pin in the firing pin hole to make sure the revolver couldn't be fired.

Detailed research on Forehand & Wadsworth and later Hopkins & Allen is sadly lacking, but it is known that they made a number of different models between the early 1870's to about World War One. At this point I have no idea which particular model you have, or if the parts offered by Numrich are the right ones. I did find F&W pocket revolvers listed in a reprint of Sears-Roebuck's 1909 catalog, but I presume they were manufactured by Hopkins & Allen (Charles Allen that is, not Ethan).

In the larger cities (especially in the East), during a time span running from before the Civil War to the early post-World War One era - and sometimes later - police officers patroled the streets on foot, and sometimes didn't carry a revolver at all. They were dressed like the English "Bobby" of yesteryear, and depended on a big stick. Those who did carry sidearms usually had them in a hip-pocket holster or overcoat pocket. For this reason many .32 and .38 top-break and early hand ejector revolvers with 3 to 4 inch barrels were advertised as "Police Models."

 

[loadedround]

Old Fluff, thank you.

 

[2RCO]

post a pic of the old girl.

I have an F&W that once belonged to a cop in Lexington, KY.

 

[Old Fuff]

Those that might be interested in earlier Forehand & Wadsworth revolvers should look at the following auction site. Unfortunately I don't believe there are any top-break models though. You may find the prices to be expensive but looking is for free. Go through the whole list, as the F&W guns are more toward the middle and end. To see larger pictures, click on the thumbnail.

http://www.proxibid.com/asp/Catalog.asp?aid=18516