Firing warning shots

Status
Not open for further replies.
Lonestar49,

The plusses and minuses of warning shots and blanks have been covered by others. It doesn't worry me so much that your first round is a blank or that a blank may or may not cycle. What really worries me is that you made a choice to carry a certain gun/ammo combination and bet your (and any other innocent person in the vicinity's) life on something without knowing if it would even function.

Use your intelligence and research to make the decision you feel is best...but whatever you decide...TEST IT!

You can do a search...and this has been hashed to death. But consider chamber empty carry (and good training on this method...try: http://fight2survive.com/store/detail.aspx?ID=26) as a better alternative than a blank. Your chambering the gun will serve as a warning if that's what you are going for, it will put a good round in the chamber. There are many downsides to chamber empty carry, but it has less problems than a blank in the chamber.

The best method is probably to just learn to use your guns as intended (chambered) and train until you are proficient. Learn more about the laws in your area as well so you are more comfortable with the possible outcomes of a shooting incident.
 
Last edited:
...

Hey strambo, nice to see an educated reader along with your kind response that mirrors what conclusions I will come to in the near future. To remain accurate, I have no blanks yet, as my local gun store does not have any in stock, and I special ordered 3 boxes, 1 each, of the type pistols that I have in my possession, the Beretta Px 4 40cal, and the Sig P229R CT 9mm that I pickup this Monday. My wife's Sig P232 SL 380 will be, by law, picked up April 10, and we are scheduled for a 2 day full course, 9am-5pm 200 rounds min per day Basic Funds of Marksmanship thru Tactical, April 14, and 15th.

I'm looking forward to any and all the training that I choose up the road, and especially, from my Brother in Law, LAPD (Swat-first 23yrs) 27yrs TT, who has, and still does, in his off time, travel to various Military Bases, both Army Special Opts and Marine/Navy Seals, and gives instruction on use of Tactical weapons and Tactical situations, that, after the wife and I finish the April course, will offer me his personal training at his firing range, and some outdoor wilderness training, when we go fishing together this summer up in the high Sierras (his favorite peace of Heaven here on Earth).

Again, my thanks for your support and wise words of wisdom, placed on the table, as opposed to those that slam their words down, "this is the only way".

You take care over there, and you have my thanks for that as well..

Give your/the boys my best,


~ Salute ~



LS :)
 
Lonestar49 - Just a couple things to consider:
1. Blanks are still deadly at close range
2. If you pull your gun at all, it should be to defend your life with deadly force from serious bodily harm or deadly force.
3. If you fire a 'blank' and kill someone without meaning to, you will be convicted of accidentally killing him.
4. If you pull your gun when it's unnecessary to do so, thinking the blank 'warning shot' will scare someone away, then THEY consider they are in deadly danger, they will kill you, or force you to kill them. You will have then escalated a non-deadly situation to deadly force encounter.
5. Your blanks may or may not cycle the slide properly in a consistent manner. Bank, click...jam is not a good way to start a gunfight. The guy you just shot at (but didn't shoot at?!?) will think you tried to kill him, and kill you.

Carry however you wish...but i would advise you simply carry with an empty chamber if you are worried about negligent discharges. A blank can and will still hurt or kill someone at close range, so the ONLY thing you can really rely on the blank for is a 'warning shot' and even then it's tactically no different to fire a 'warning shot' with a live round than with the blank.
 
Friday, 10/07/2005 at 4:00 am.

I fired 2 warning shots to diffuse a situation. I had the burgular lying flat on the ground away from me. He refused to obey my orders to keep his hands away from his body (was wearing a hooded sweatshirt). He was starting to start to move his legs and move his hands closer to his body. I had 911 on the phone waiting for the police to come standing in a dark warehouse while his other 2 buddies knew where I was since I was screaming at the scumbag to get down. I can hear his buddies coming to the rescue and the one on the floor just did not act right (constantly going for something in his front body). He never actually never saw a gun, but the light from my flashlight. He would not comply + his two buddies coming to me from behind + the cops could not get in = me shooting two shots into my craftsman toolbox to prove a point that I was armed. It calmed him down and the two buddies were never to be heard from again.
 
...

Thanks H, for the wise words, they are well taken..

Just know, as I said, when I get my 1 box each, 50rounds per box, for each gun, I will test them, to make sure they cycle. If they fail, even twice, after the first 40 rounds, then it will be a no-go using any blanks.

Also, the only warning shot I would give would be up in the air, (nothing to come down) and as you said, as well as others, if I have no way out, the opposing party is not gonna let go, let me leave, (you know what I mean), or, a situation arises that I intend to shoot to harm, no warning, then the blank aimed at the perpetrator, followed by # 2 live round, and possible #3 live shot, is gonna happen in the blink of an eye.

I suspect, that as my education/training and familiarity with my guns, grows into the subconscious mode/second nature, then I will carry, when out of the house, chambered, and only need a DA pull, or a manual pull of the hammer-cock ,to SA mode, to send my tone and intentions to whomever. (but I still will consider the use of the first-round blank, if they work, as a means to defuse a situation without sending metal into orbit to come down somewhere).

I base this on my reasoning as follows:
Military Training.. trained to go into the field of fire
Police Training.. trained to seek and defuse trouble of any kind.
Civilian Training.. to not seek trouble, to stay away from the field of fire if possible, to live my life, thru the thinking (and luck/fate, which plays into all the above IMHO) that has got me thru 57 orbits of the Sun.. thus far, without a hand-gun, or ever the need, but as the last German Shepherd passes on to join the other 6, I/we intend to be GS dog free to travel some, and thus the need for road and home protection by, and with, a hand-gun. I'm not one to take chances without a game plan, if ......

It's (the blank, if it works, cycles the mag) for inside my house, as I said, so I don't shoot the dog, put a hole thru my ceiling, put one thru the TV while dry-firing (with firing caps loaded) or, if someone did get past the German Shepherd, and to my gun, next to our bed, and awakens me, without shooting me first, then I'll know that I have one move to consider before the hard shell comes out.

Not a perfect thought process, in our imperfect world, but I'm damn sure I'm gonna do what's best as to not screw the Pooch, or my wife, or guest, late at night, until I know whats in front of my muzzle.

Again, thanks for the wise words put forth on the table as, for the most part, this thread, and most of the replies have been like a full course meal, for me to eat, and now digest..

Believe me, I'm reading a lot in here, hearing, learning, digesting, but, right now, my hands-on education is limited, and my choices, as of now, are made by, and of, that truth. But as the education becomes more hands-on, I'm sure that change will be a viable option that I will be able to make, and live, or die, or even, make the/a mistake, with, the same as my flying.. lol.

"no one wants to live more than your pilot" hehehe


My best,


LS
 
Last edited:
2 things

the best description of categorical statements like never and always was delivered by leonard nimoy in mission nimpossible he said the last time he made a categorical statement was when he promised his dad he'd be home by midnight prom night. he was wrong then and he quit it. the older on gets the less inclined to pontificate absolutes.
the second point is why is it that the folks most inclined to TALK about center of mass hits and being so eager to shoot someone are those who have never done or seen it.(outside tv and video ganes that is) its like sex and adolescent boys the more they talk the less they have had) with the exception of a couple real sick pups i know nobody i know who has ever had to shoot someone wants to ever do it again and most would go to great lengths to avoid it. life is funny like that.i can think of plenty of times i would try a warning before i actually shot someone . barring a single shot shotgun its worth a shot. and i use stinger rounds for blackbear deterence and dog fights does that count?
 
...

I'm with ya there C..

I hope that I become such a good Marksman/Expert shooter someday, that I will use that confidence to at least, if I have the time and shot, to take out someones leg, arm, rather than be programed to hit center of mass for the one-shot-kill, like some kind of Great Hunter (for the thrill)

I think unlike many, I keep my ego in check, rather than the other way around, their egos have control of them.

That's my goal, and has worked in 1200hrs logged plus, un-logged times in various experimental, or Ultralight, type aircraft. I've seen the Big Egos, come and go, by screwing the pooch, killing themselves, or worse, and others.



LS
 
Last edited:
I hope that I become such a good Marksman/Expert shooter someday, that I will use that confidence to at least, if I have the time and shot, to take out someones leg, arm, rather than be programed to hit center of mass for the one-shot-kill, like some kind of Great Hunter (for the thrill
Click to expand...
LS,
You've brought forward another often cited fallacy regarding defensive shooting. That is the "Just wing 'em" fallacy.

COM hits do not guarantee "one shot kills." Aiming COM increases your chances of hitting a moving target while you are moving yourself with adrenaline coursing through your veins and while experiencing the extreme tunnel vision brought on by facing death. Shooting COM is not taught to make a person some "Great Hunter". It is taught because most people are not "Great Hunters". COM shooting is taught to increase your chances of survival in the face of death.

I do not mean this in any but the best way. Get some qualified training from a recognized instructor in your area. You have demonstrated a need for that. It's good to see that you have enrolled in some courses. If your BiL is an instructor, great. Otherwise, take what he has to say with a grain of salt. LEOs know this stuff from the LEO point of reference pretty well. The civilian point of reference is very different. Do not mix the two. Doing so will put you up a creek quickly.
 
...

Understood XB, my thinking on the wounding only would only pertain to an idiot that just walked or ran in a straight line at me, but it all changes after breaking the 10ft barrier, 12ft out, or with me cornered, no place to run. But, if anyone with any sort of weapon, and just his body/fists included, came at me in a dodgy type pattern, you bet my aim will be for center mass, as a great hunter should try. I just want to be in control, like flying, when the **** hits the fan, if one has not practiced for this, or that, emergency, panic can and will take over. This, adrenaline, fear of ones life, is no different, it's a quick-call/ judgement call, and that is what I want to learn to have control over.

I know, but it will always be my call, or fall..


But again, thanks for your thoughts, as you may have read, after initial training, scheduled in April, then I hook-up with my Brother in Law, as you may or may not have read his qualifications above, but he is, and ever will be, my mentor. And whatever he says, or trains me to do, will most likely be what I will follow, while not having to "think about it", but it becoming second nature.

Again, as a law enforcement officer, or military, they deal with the enemy 24/7, as opposed to my lifestyle as a civi, just trying to prevent an ugly event between myself, family, friends, etc. Not looking for it, but not walking around blindly, without a means to thwart, or stop any harm coming my way, is the goal from here on. It's also a matter if I'm at the wrong place, wrong time, and I can make a difference, without the need of deadly force, I hope I can use all the training to make it happen, and I hope that I never have to fire a shot, that is also my goal.


Sad world, but it comes with city life, as well as some bad country folk as well.


Thanks again for your wise words.



LS
 
Not attempting to be offensive, Lonestar, but you are going through a very long list of commonly considered bad ideas and untrue perceptions...Shooting someone in the leg could kill them faster than shooting them in their center of mass quite easily -- a stomach shot, for example, would be painful but likely not kill quickly at all....getting shot in the leg and cutting a major artery could easily result in the person bleeding to death in seconds.. on the other hand, your stomach shot might clip the spinal column and take the person out instantly...
Please get some professional instruction before you start carrying your firearms around. You cannot shoot to wound. Shooting to wound does not exist. If you shoot someone, they will likely die. At the same time, if you shoot someone, they may not even be harmed as far as you can tell by their subsequent actions. Handguns are a ****ty deal; they aren't reliable enough but they are too reliable to just go around shooting people and expecting them to live. If you shoot someone, shoot them to STOP A THREAT, not to wound them. While you're grinning smugly about hitting the guy 'right in the thigh' he could either (a) bleed to death (oops, sorry office i swear i didn't mean to KILL him, just to WOUND him...welcome to jail) or (b) he pulls out his gun and returns fire, as a wound to the leg does not (despite what hollywood would have us believe) incapacitate a person from functioning.

Firing a blank will not save you from damaging things in your house, though it'll keep stray rounds from penetrating multiple walls (use frangible ammo instead) - and if it does damage your floor? (DONT SHOOT UP), who cares? If you needed to fire your gun at someone you have WAY WAY bigger things to worry about than a hole in your floor or wall. Also, your comment about several rounds after your blank hitting a guy COM milliseconds after you fired the blank... good luck with that. Generally, you expect to perform your absolute worst in a real life or death situation - stacking the odds in the other guys favor by loading a blank and expecting the recoil, sound and light from it not to effect your ability to place other rounds in him is in my opinion not the ideal thing to train towards. I fire my guns every weekend, over 1000 rounds, and i would trust my skills after a year of that in a dark venue when being shot at to actually hit someone with more than one or 2 rounds out of 5 at any distance beyond a couple feet. If only one of those rounds gets through and it's a blank that proves not to be fatal, that's a pretty crappy deal.

I would try very hard to avoid training yourself to shoot up in the air with any rounds - that kind of thing becomes natural and you do it by habit in the worst time (read: when you finally load the gun as it's designed to be used) What goes up comes down, what goes down stays down (as long as you don't fire it at an obtuse angle) - if you insist on firing a warning shot, fire it at something solid or at the ground at a steep angle. Unless you're on the second floor... (hope you don't shoot your foot either - not a joke, it's happened, and to police officers with plenty of training..)

If you want to 'make a difference without employing deadly force', carry a cell phone and some pepper spray, not a gun. Guns are not for intimidation or for wounding people, they are devices designed around lethal force. Even so-called 'non-lethal' rounds can and have been proven lethal in many situations. If you pull a gun to intimidate someone because they were 'out of line' or something, you are escalating a situation you thought only required intimidation to a situation where the other person believes he is in danger for his life. He is now justified with using deadly force to save his life, and if you did not feel like deadly force was necessary when you drew your gun (oh he'll run off when he sees this...), he is in the right and you are in the wrong.

What does your brother in law SWAT member think about you firing warning shots, shooting to wound an aggressor and loading your gun with blanks?
 
lonestar

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

there are old pilots there are bold pilots there are no old bold pilots this applies in many areas.
__________________

Hey C, that entails many variables, trust me, as I speak from experience, and I'm an old, and bold pilot, but, the bold part was, and is, by myself (for the very most part) under controlled conditions, that if I auger in, it's just me, and no property damage nor innocents anywhere near, on the ground nor, over the water/ocean.

Not saying it's right, but this life we live is once around the block, and there are certain aspects of flying, that only 1% of the total population of the USA even know (how to fly) let alone, understand the Pelican you see gliding over the waves, or the gulls, gliding over and next to the cliffs..

I have, on occasion, taken a passenger, some pilots, some not, on such flights, but they had full knowledge, that there where, at times, no room for error, and it could get ugly.

However, here I am, with what I know, have learned, been taught, have felt, and feel, be it natures updrafts, downdrafts, temp and ground effects, reading of the water, on, and on..

But, with the power of God, having lightning in one had, I don't wish to become empowered with that feeling of might and destruction, rather, learn a means to make a call, in a heartbeat, like flying, yet very different, in that it would be all too easy to take all the built up training and make use of it, to give ones-self some sort of completion. Unlike what I do with and in my flying, mainly by myself, far from cities, farms, boats, etc.. either between 5000ft and 8000ft, or 5ft off the deck, and min 20-30ft over the ocean, as ya never know when a fish, or whale or dolphin, etc, will pop up some 10 ft or more.. ;)

I'm not the perfect pilot, if I was, I would be an Airline pilot or USAF retiring in a few.. but my grades sucked in school.. I was into girls and surfing and life in general.. lol

But, for what it's worth, I've never lost a student, nor have I ever turned anyone off on flying, quite the opposite. My Nephew, my Bother in Laws son, just got excepted for F16 fighter school, after graduating from the USAF Academy 1.6 yrs ago, thanks, in great part, to his Uncle.. me.

And that bit of what I have given back to the world, his earned success, my pride, is also aimed at doing the right thing with a gun.

Most people don't know I fly, I don't talk or brag about it, unless the subject comes up by chance, and the same applies to me buying handguns, actually even more unknown to friends, family, and will stay that way.

I had great teachers, and just needed to polish the wings I grew over time, and many of my mentors still offer me left seat in their planes, and the same will hold true with my training and my use of any pistol, but with a far greater control measures than in flying, being on the ground surrounded by the multitudes of good and bad, unlike the clean, fresh, open air of flight, way up, or on the deck, or next to the cliffs, just like the birds do and "know" to do. There's a right time, and a wrong time to be bold, it's just knowing when to say no, not today, not there, not now. That's it in a nutshell.


I'll be fine, this is not a self teaching journey I'm on, present tense or future, this is fight, if you will, to contain the power, and if I ever find I can't be satisfied with not knowing if I could or couldn't, then you will be first in line to buy my guns at a price that will sell them all quick.

And C, this is not directed at you, nor anyone in here, you just happened upon a phrase that I know all to well about.

Chuck Yeager is alive, and he was, and is, an old bold pilot, because, he always crunched the emergency maneuvers in any plane he flew, so if something went wrong, he had a game plan, most of those old bold and young bold, who are not with us, fell far short in this area, along with common sense, or the abiltiy to read the air, the water, the moment, and could not say NO, the one and only time it would have saved their lives.


My best,


LS
 
...



Ok, you're all right.. I'm wrong

No problems, no harm no foul.

Let me get on with my education, I'll be fine, no worries, I will get the right training, and be fine.

The choices we're all talking about, good, bad, right, wrong, have not been put into play at this end.

Anything I'm thinking, is just that, thinking, but if the world ended today, and there was no one to teach me anymore about guns, I think its fair to say, I would not kill an innocent, shoot my foot off, nor shoot the wrong guy out of panic or unclear thinking. That I'm confident in.

I can honestly see, unlike in flying, the more instructors one has, it really is the better, for one will teach you something another has forgotten, or has little time doing, and one has alot of experience at this or that, for real yet, I see great conflict in gun techniques, methods, etc., which flys in the face of who's right, who's wrong, as experience is the real answer as to learning from a few, that have had the best, and worst, this world has to offer and "share it" with their students, not "Preach it".

Does anyone really liked to be Preached-AT.. ?

So, if ya want to share something with me, PM me, if ya want to Preach at me, feel free to post away, and feel good about it, but this horse/thread is DEAD.



LS
 
First post by TheEconomist:


"If you have to pull the trigger - it is to shoot center-mass..... nothing more, nothing less."




I prefer to say "If you have to pull the trigger - it is to STOP THE THREAT."

ie - what if said perp is wearing body armor and high on drugs - center mass shot is unlikely to effect - plan B - head shot.

or what if said perp has hostage (in typical hollywood style with only head shot visible - plan B - head shot.

or what if said perp is hiding behind a wall or other concealment/cover and only the shoulder or leg is showing - plan B - available shot.
 
Therein lies a misunderstanding of shooting at center mass. You always shoot at center mass of the traget that presents itself, or that you have chosen as the best available target area. If it is half a head sticking out from behind a wall, you shoot at the center of its mass, or at the center of the part of the ehad that is visible to you for a clear shot. If you know a guy is wearing body armor that covers his chest cavity, and you have a clear shot at both his pelvis or his head - you have to decide which to shoot, and you shoot center mass of either. I would most likely choose the pelvis for reasons that should be obvious, but regardless I would shoot center mass of my chosen target area.

All the best,
Glenn B
 
LS,
I don't think anyone is intentionally jumping you. Please understand that your words here will be preserved, and will be retrievable by the forum's search engine.

A year from now, when you are a well trained proficient pistol totin' citizen, your words here will remain. At that time, another neophyte can locate them and follow your advice.........unless it is refuted.

Nobody is attacking you, but your arguments for warning shots, winging an attacker, and brother in law SWAT instruction is being attacked because they need to be. Feel free to PM me if you feel otherwise.

The analogies between flying and defensive shooting are false ones, as are the analogies between ships at sea and defensive shooting. Each situation demands it's own actions and standards. For example, Navy ships at sea do not fire warning shots when there are friendly ships (or anything else but water) on the other side of their intended target, do they? You see, all analogies break down. Civilian armed defense is like no other subject. Finding qualified instruction in civilian armed defense is the best way to find success, because that is the subject at hand, not flying or boarding vessels at sea.

FWIW, I am past Navy. My bird was the F-18. There is a little thing called carrier quals that aviators go through each time they go to sea, and also something called "maintaining proficiency". But the analogies can be left alone.
 
...

No problems XB, I don't feel like I'm being attacked, and with your PM explanation, the picture is much clearer, thanks.

But I do have a question; I told my gun dealer about the Yea's and Nay's of the question of will a blank even cycle the gun? He said, "it should, but if you really want to make sure it cycles, and are worried about a bullet coming down out of orbit, you could use some 40cal "snake shot" and fire it up into the air, and it will cycle your gun."

Any thoughts about using this as the first load, good, or bad, other than "no warning shots, period"?.



LS
 
In my experience, "snakeshot" will not cycle a semi-automatic handgun.
What I used to gain my experience was a Beretta M21A and CCI snake shot. The goal was eraticating mice. Not once did the snake shot cycle the pistol. A .40S&W pistol might be different, it might not, I don't know.

If you want to do this, try it first at the range. Try it a lot.

In fact, most people who have shot and carried a gun for any length of time will advise that you not to trust any pistol as being reliable until you have shot it at least 500 times, with out a single failure, using your carry ammunition. This is regardless of the type of gun or ammo choice.

So, regardless of your choices, before you pronounce a particular pistol and ammunition combination reliable enough to carry, you should have throughly checked it out yourself, in your own gun, in your own hands. This goes for a magazine full of Speer Gold Dots, Federal Hydrashoks, a first round being a blank, or a first round being snake shot. Check it out yourself. Then you will know if it will make the gun function.

My other argument against "snake shot" and other shot shells in a handgun is it destroys the rifling of the barrel over time.

I still believe your first shot should be with your regular carry ammo. It might be the only shot you get before you would otherwise die. The final choice is your's however.
 
I've got some 9mm shotshells for my s&w model 659 - they won't cycle the slide either. Sometimes it cycles just enough to get the casing stuck in the slide as it closes, other times not even enough to pull the shell out of the barrel/chamber....
.40s&w might be different, but i wouldn't expect it to be; i've heard from many people that shot shells usually won't cycle a gun with the standard springset. I bought some .38spl shot shells for snake killing duties...no cycling in a revolver :)
 
The center-mass thing was just meant to say - it's to shoot to stop the threat.

Center-mass of your target can obvious vary depending on the target and other circumstances.

I figured you guys know what I mean.

As for Navy or Air-force - I'm talking CCW civilians here. Whatever they teach in the military obviously has its own purpose.

My basic statement here is to remind people that a warning shot in a self-defense situation, while it may be well-intentioned, is really just a stray bullet that will at some point come to a stop.... and whether that stop happens to be an innocent bystander or not - is a problem.

It was just a reminder of what I'd imagine is common-sense. I'm surprised it's gone on this many pages.
 
Quote:
My other argument against "snake shot" and other shot shells in a handgun is it destroys the rifling of the barrel over time.
...................

That was my concern, that as you say, really not good for the barrel, as opposed to standard bullets.. I think that snake shot is no longer an option with that in mind.

Looks like it's gonna be hollow point loads, chambered.

BTW, just got back from the range today, and the Beretta Xp4 40cal has now gone thru 700 rounds, no problems.

Thanks for all the advise, and I'm gonna go with the old saying that:

~ a thousand flys cannot be wrong ~ ;) good ol American "Majority wins"


LS
 
It's not going to add much to the thread, but a specific instance and instructor gave me of when warning shots are a bad idea.

Some people, even with modern DA revolvers carry with the hammer on an empty chamber, while many of the compact revolvers only hold five rounds. Either way, the situation is the same.

BG comes at you, presents a knife or other weapon and clearly expresses intent to kill you. You fire a warning shot into the ground. BG may not hear it or may not care - you weren't intending to shoot him anyway. He keeps coming.

What if the BG were on PCP or something similar? It's entirely concieveable that you could quickly put three or four shots into center of mass before realizing it has no effect. Your only option is one to the head - and quick, as he's already closed the gap between you.

But you fired your fifth and decisive shot into the pavement.


Not to say there isn't a time and a place for it, but it could potentially have bad results.
 
warning

every situation's needs will develope according to your training/perception/abilities ( fate playes a roll). But all in all, a warning shot seldom will garnish points w/in the judicial system.....& what IF it jams....
 
There are no absolutes in this world.

It is acceptable to display lethal force, as you can recall it, but you can not recall lethal force. The second you pull the trigger, you've used lethal force, there is no recalling that bullet.

My dos pesos as a LEO. YMMV
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

DeepSouth
  • Locked
Need a reason to NOT fire a warning shot?
2
Replies
43
Views
1K
Deltaboy1984
Deltaboy1984
C
  • Locked
Why Yell A "STOP" Or Warning?
2 3 4 5
Replies
112
Views
3K
Loosedhorse
L
M
  • Locked
Warning Shots In Barfight?
2 3
Replies
51
Views
2K
Super Trucker
S
J
  • Locked
TX CHL holder thwarts Denny's robbery in Houston
2 3 4
Replies
91
Views
2K
mongo4567
M
J
  • Locked
Florida woman sentenced to 20 years for firing warning shot
2 3
Replies
53
Views
2K
Kleanbore
K
Back
Top