First 22lr in Finland, Buckmark or Neos???

[17poundr]

Hello everybody from Finland, after being a member of the Helsinki Shooting club for over a couple of years, I now am getting my first gun, it's going to be a 22lr, something that I wished wasnt so as I have rented mostly 9mm sig, and tried all kinds up to the .50 desert eagle. And anyway, when I did my national service in the army here, we did an MP course and shot a lot of practical style courses with our FN 9mm's. (My aim now is to get into practical shooting with a 9mm or .40, just shooting from 25m endlessly is getting boring, although I never stop wondering how fast one gets rusty)!

Anyway, I have narrowed my choise from the initial foursome of the cheaper Smith & Wesson 22, the Ruger 22 pistols, the Walther 22 long barrel (must be long barrel by law) and the Browning Buckmark, now the other three have all had constantly re occuring problems (which are these: S&W- some are unlucky factory guns and have misfeed and spring breakdown problems, sometimes this spring at the back goes after only a thousand rounds! The Walther too has similar unlucky models but not in any particular component, also the handle get's flak, and the Ruger is trustworthy but taking appart and especially assembling it seems to be hell for some, I do not like over complexity in putting a gun together having been raised on the SAKO rk-62 assault rifle which is as easy as a Kalashnikov to break down and clean)!

Yep, all have faults but the Browning, and now I saw a Buckmark plus for just 390 euros, the cheapest I have seen yet.

But, when I started looking, the Beretta Neos wasnt yet approved into Finland, now I noticed it was for sale for 470 euro, so please help a brother plinker to be out (I intend to make my own practical style plinking range at a friends summer cottage out of the way in the forrest) which of these would you choose? The tested and trusworthy Browning or the new and trendy Neos and why?

P.S. Happy to be here (list of guns I love: Sig226 9mm, Colt 1911 45apc, CZ 75 9mm, Colt python with 38specials loaded, and ofcourse the Suomi smg and the Finnish army's RK-62!)

(Guns that I would love to shoot: Armalite-ar 15 and some variants, the new S&W short 357 and 45apc revolvers and the Military-Police Pistol, a USP in any size, and the sig357 probably comaring it from a sig 'perhaps the new SAS line that they have come out with' and the Glock and the USP for comparison, a classic redux cowboy revolver with a hexagon style barrel perhaps the engraved casull calibre made from a Ruger,STI guns in general but especially the double stack five inch barrel competition pistol with a 20 round 9mm capacity! The new XD with 14 45's in the clip, a very fine custom made 1911 45apc where the gun writers always say the trigger is 'crisp', whatever it means it sounds like heaven! And ofcourse a whole bundle of other good pistols that I drool over in the magazines I read, Then other great looking guns like a Mossberg shotgun, the Ingram MAC-10 or mac-11, the ak-47 or 74 short, some of the exellent hunting rifles with the amazing scopes! (Although I am very much an 'iron scope' guy, still, a good socom style 308 and ofcourse THE classic 30 06 and a m-14 variant and some serious sniper rifles in 338 lapua and 50cal! You realize that even the handguns will be overcome by the new style optics like the revolution taking over the NATO forces now, at our range a guy had a pistol with a red disc on it (not a lazer mind you), but he saw a red dot in it and he couldnt miss from 25m standing up group after group all tight, while we using normal pistol sights had irregularities, some flyers and some fatigue 'loosening up' after about 70 rounds, I liked it in Latvia or in the army where the practice distance was 15m, I think that 25m is a bit more like the Olympic style of shooting and I wish that we got at least pop up and draw, or something to beef up the experience, well that is why I intend to get into practical asap.

I'll put some pictures of guns that l think are very cool. I have mostly military gun pics as they look most interesting, but here are some that are 'out of the norm' if you know that omni style of modern guns where even a gun enthusiast cannot tell them appart in tv series anymore! Well, I cant... Sigh... Do you agree that a competition practical style gun is actually a pretty good tactical self defence gun by default?

Ok, hope to hear from you all, bye!

 

[Onmilo]

Finland not being known as a country full of stupid people I would think you will have no trouble field stripping and reassembling a Ruger pistol.

I like the Buckmarks but I had no idea they are priced so expensive over there.
390 Euro is, let's see, about $485.00 US and we can buy the basic Buckmarks here for maybe $230.00 US on sale.
There must be some whopping big Tariff attached on foreign pistols in Finland, yes?

I would choose a Buckmark over a Ruger but only because of the side of the coin that landed face up when I tossed it.

 

[Primersinmyshoe]

Could you perhaps purchase a 1911 and get a Marvel top end. You'd have a 45acp and a 22lr. Here's a link: http://www.marvelprod.com/lgisTRANS.htm

 

[El Tejon]

Welcome to THR, new friend.

I have a couple of copies of the Ruger 22/45. I like them very much but I grew up shooting the 1911 so it is "natural" to me.

Can you rent the pistols before you buy them, or ask your buddies to loan the guns to you to shoot? Likes and dislikes in guns are very subjective. I suggest trying before buying.

Good luck with your M14. It is a very fine weapon; I think you will be most happy.

 

[hksw]

Welcome. You write exceptionally well in English.

The Brownings do, on occassion have some minor issues. On some, the top sight rib might come loose. Easy to fix with a little thread locking adhesive. Another is some samples will allow the firing pin to hit the edge of the chamber when dry firing (generally a bad thing to do with .22 lrs with exception to a few). Overall though, a good gun, IMO. My regular .22 lr handguns I shoot with are a Buckmark Standard and a Ruger MkII (KMK10).

As for the Neos, I had the opportunity to try my friend's a couple years ago (a recent purchase for him). I am more accustomed to regular grip angles and the rake of the Neos grip angle is a bit excessive for me, at least for my initial trials with the gun. I could not shoot accurately with it that day due to this. (Has more rake than even the MkII.) I'm sure I could have practiced more and become more competent with it but it isn't my gun and my first impressions prevent it from making my 'Get This' list. The barrel is very easy to remove, though (as compared to other more common .22s).

 

[The Scandinavian]

Have you considered the Margo / Margolin?

 

[Ala Dan]

I prefer Browning Buckmark's over all else; including the wonderful Ruger
MK-II (III) KMK-512. Both are excelllent choices, but the Browning just
feels more balanced too me~!

 

[wally]

Both the Buckmark and Neos are great little .22s as are the Rugers.

Buckmark is likely to have the best trigger out of the box, but if your plans include a scope or a red dot optic, that's where the Neos really wins with its full length rail so you can mount the optic and get the balance just the way you want it.


My advice:

Iron sights only, get the Buckmark.

Must have an optic, get the Neos.

Not sure, get the Ruger, one of the adjustable sight models that include the scope mounting rail.

--wally.

 

[Heggis]

Whether you go with Ruger or Buckmark, you won't make a bad decision. Although I personally like Buckmark grip/angle more than in Ruger. In terms of disassembly and cleaning, get a boresnake and your worries are gone

My buckmark plus is now clocking 4000 rounds since last cleanup without malfunctions. And yes with the silencer. It looks really dirty but I promised my self I won't clean it until it does a malfunction...



My modifications
Oko reddot ~200€
Weigand weaver base ~50€
SAK silencer 35€
Threadingjob 50€
With turning one spring around a crisp 800g (~1.8lb) triggerpull. You can get it even lighter but I like to have some resistance.

Working on a trigger with pre and overtravel adjustment...

Buckmarks are expensive here since for a long time there were no official importers, so it jacked up the price. Well see how prices chance since now do have one.

 

[Johnny Guest]

I like both the Browning and the Ruger

I gave Elder Son a Buckmark with the longer barrel for his first handgun some years back. I can't imagine how many rounds have gone through it. Ten thousand? No, that's only 20 cartons. Probably more.

After several, I happened onto a bargain on a short barrel version and picked it up for myself. I may have put a couple of thousand through it before my wife simply appropriated it for her own. It stays in HER shooting bag with HER spare magazines and HER ammo in the safe. I don't even get to clean it.

One caution - - Be careful in removing the stock panels - - There's a little spring that may get away from you unless care is used.

Please let us know which you get.
Best of luck.
Johnny

 

[Dave Markowitz]

I'd go with either the Ruger or the Browning. If you don't like the Luger-like grip of the Ruger, they also make the 22/45 variant which has a grip with the same angle as the M1911, very similar to the Buckmark.

 

[Medusa]

There must be some whopping big Tariff attached on foreign pistols in Finland, yes?

Don't know about that. Looks to me that most guns are expensive in this neighbourhood, example here a brand new CZ75B is around 900 USD, SIG P226 is a crispy 1400 USD, Glocks are running on low prize of 1000 USD, Sako TRG-22 rifle is a staggering 5000+ USD. Go figure.

 

[GTSteve03]

Could you get a CZ Kadet pistol? I love my conversion for my 75 Compact, and it will probably be just as accurate as your other choices, as well as quite reliable and easy to field strip.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I love my little NEOS (6" INOX), but the Buckmark is classier. I can't get over the prices, though. $600 for a NEOS?!?!? I wouldn't own one if it had cost that. I think I paid $260 about 4 years ago. Jeeze, if the NEOS is that much, the Ruger target models must be pushing $1K. I have a Ruger Mk II Government Target model 6-7/8" with Volquartzen grips, a compensator (I know, I know), a bi-pod mount w/harris bi-pod, and a Burris 1.5-4x scope. That thing is an honest-to-god tack driver, But that was a $900 set up here.

That said, what are prices like on units made in continental Europe? There are certainly some good rimfires coming out of Italy. Don't get me wrong, I love my American-made hardware, but if I had to pay double (or more) for them because of where I lived, I might look at some other options.

 

[Tropical Z]

The Neos is a great .22lr.

 

[17poundr]

THANKS!

Dear new friends. Thanks so much for all the good advice, and dedication for detailed info sharing.
Unfortunately, not only the prices are whacky here, so is the Police's licence bureau (known to be prejudiced to even from which club you apply for a licence)!

I was denied the licence. I really cannot give a logical reason, they said that as I have been fined three times (always the minimum fine, sixty euro's, one for speeding twenty km over the limit, and other such trivia, nothing violent, a bit of drunken singing in the night with mates and getting a fine). So, I couldnt get any licence, ever!

And, no bull, I have never been arrested, no record, just fined the minimum, three times in my life and I'm thirty six!
I repeat, NO CRIMINAL COURTS EVER, NO CRIMINAL RECORD, STILL I GET REFUSED LIKE A COMMON CRIMINAL.
And I was in the Guards honour company in the army!

I'm pretty shattered as I was planning to advance to practical shooting, but ... I will not print the words that come to mind, oh I could get a hunting rifle if I belonged to a hunting club, maybe, they said!!!

Appart form the logic of If indeed I was dangerous to society, compare what a trained ex soldier could do with a 308 hunting rifle, to a .22lr plinker!

So, now U know why the prices are whacky, the whole system is!!

Be grateful for your right to go and get what you want if you arent a violent criminal. And oh, by the way, there are plenty illegal arms in Finland, so if I really wanted, I could by an illegal weapon, but I dont. Well, I'm almost tempted, as I'm so mad, but I wont.

Thanks again, and more about it on the Browing hi Power thread.

Mr Poundr.

P.S. The prices quoted are generally correct, but sometimes, like one shop that was getting out of business because of the politics of this country, or so the website claimed, was selling all of his remaining Glock 17s for only 500 Euro a pop! Just to make the powers at be mad!

So, there are exeptions and sales like everywhere, but it is usually rip off prices, it's the damned importers... (Which gives SAKO no exuses). I would have said, get a sako for your hunting, but I feel so downtrodden that I advise you to boycott all Finn made products, and if you are in a nra like organisation , if u want to make a favour, please put pressure on Finland, to get the Police's head out of their a***s and start doing fair licencing, as it's ridiculous in that almost all of the violent crimes are non gun, (drunken knives is the lethal combo in Finnish crime stats), and if there is shooting, usually it's with illegal guns. So there.

I repeat the question I posted on the Browing Hi Power therad: Are there kind of camp/meetings where tourists can have a go at practical shooting over there? If so, I'm seriously thinking... I'm thinking of coming over anyway, so I could try to polish my old skills with a rented ak, or a sako-rk-62 if they would have one... And ofcourse I wish to try an AR-15!

And, some other classics, I can rent most handguns in my club, so that's not such a shame, it's the ultimate stricktness and bureaucratic drama that makes me mad, and that I cannot polish and cherish a fine Buckmark of my own... oh, and the clubs charge ten times the price on ammo, you need a licence to buy ammo from the shop you see... another reason to get one's own gun, but alas... Nevermind, in Britain, a normal citizen can NEVER get a licence!!!