First bayonet crime I've heard of...

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ID_shooting

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This has got to be the first ever bayonet crime I have heard of if not the first one in the country. I hope the antis don't get wind of this...I wonder if a taser would have been more appropriate than 4 rounds of .40 S&W.


http://www.ktvb.com/news/topstories/stories/121904ccjrktvbpoliceshooting.229dca0c.html

"A Boise Police officer shot and killed 16-year-old Matthew Jones, who allegedly brandished a World War II-era rifle with a bayonet mounted on it.

The officer, Andrew S. Johnson was called to a North Boise neighborhood by the teen's father at around 5 p.m. Saturday.

The father had told police that his son was out of control and was poking holes in the walls of the family's home with the bayonet and that he may have been on drugs or alcohol

When the Johnson arrived, Jones jumped out of some bushes and allegedly made threatening gestures with the rifle toward the officer.

"The officer tried to turn and put some distance between himself and the suspect," said Boise Police Chief Jim Tibbs. "While that was occurring, he indicated he felt something hit his back."

Jones had cut through Johnson's shirt, Tibbs said.

Johnson said he warned the boy to put the gun down before shooting him multiple times. Johnson fired four shots, all of which hit Jones, Tibbs said.

The teenager was taken to Alphonsus Regional Medical Center but was dead on arrival.

After searching Jones' room, officers found another rifle and a second bayonet, a sword, and military paraphernalia along with drugs and alcohol.

"There were signs of violent aggressive behavior in the house," Tibbs said. "There were puncture marks from the bayonet, and we believe that he was pretty agitated."

Tibbs believes Johnson did exactly what he had to do. When asked why Johnson did not try to merely injure Jones, Tibbs said that given the dangerous circumstance, lethal force was the only option.

The Meridian Police Department will lead an independent investigation into the incident. Johnson has been put on automatic administrative leave. Boise Community Ombudsman Pierce Murphy will also conduct a review.

Johnson is a four-and-a-half year veteran of the force and currently assigned to the Valley Patrol Division.

Jones was a student at Boise High School. Even though the school is out for Christmas Break, the district will have grief counselors on hand at the school at 10 a.m. Monday.

The Jones family is not speaking publicly about their son's death, but attorney Rex Blackburn did issue a written statement asking the community for a period of solitude to grieve their loss."
 
Here is what the paper had to say about it. Not sure what I think but at least they focused on the kid being the problem and not the rifle.

"The father of a Boise teenager fatally shot by a police officer Saturday evening told a 911 dispatcher that the rifle his son was carrying was an antique that had no ammunition, the family's attorney said Sunday.

Boise police Officer Andrew S. Johnson shot Mathew Jones, a Boise High School sophomore, four times after the boy charged Johnson with a World War II-era rifle and bayonet. Officers later served a search warrant on the Jones home in the 1300 block of Parkhill Drive and found more weapons and military paraphernalia in Jones' bedroom. The search also uncovered "signs of alcohol use, signs of drug use," including wine bottles and a bong for smoking marijuana, interim Police Chief Jim Tibbs said Sunday.

Rex Blackburn, the Jones family's attorney, said the teen was a history buff with a collection of rifles, swords, helmets, medals and other items, mainly from the World War II era.

"He was an avid reader of World War II history and other military history," Blackburn said.

Blackburn's claim raised new questions about whether Johnson used appropriate force. Answers are not likely to come for several days while an independent Critical Incident Task Force and Community Ombudsman Pierce Murphy conduct investigations into the shooting. Efforts to reach Tibbs to respond to Blackburn's account were unsuccessful Sunday evening. It was not clear whether dispatchers relayed the information to Johnson before the shooting.

Whether the shooting was justified or not, Blackburn said the Jones family would not seek money from the Police Department. In a statement, Blackburn said family members "are not now and will not in the future tarnish the reputations of their son or the officer involved in this tragedy with claims for money." The family also asked that the dignity of their son and the officer be preserved, that the investigation be conducted with "the integrity that their son, the officer and the public deserve," and that the shooting "serve the end that no tragedy of this type ever again occur."

Jones' father, Bruce C. Jones, summoned police to the home at about 5 p.m. Saturday because Mathew Jones was out of control and using the bayonet to punch holes in the walls of the family's home, Tibbs said. The teen confronted Johnson outside the home and charged him with a bayonet attached to a rifle.

The teen did not obey Johnson's commands to put down the weapon and kept charging him, Tibbs said. Eventually, Johnson fired four shots, all of which struck the teen. Tibbs declined to say where the bullets struck the boy, although he noted that officers are trained to shoot for "center mass," or the torso.

Before the shooting, the boy jabbed the officer in the back with the bayonet when the officer tried to distance himself from the boy, Tibbs said. The 15-inch blade cut the officer's shirt and struck his protective vest, but did not injure him.

An autopsy is scheduled today. Results may determine whether Jones was under the influence of alcohol or drugs at the time of the shooting.

Tibbs and Blackburn said Mathew Jones did not have a criminal history.

"Our hearts go out to the family members of this young man who was shot," Tibbs said. "Our thoughts and prayers are with them."

The Ada County Critical Incident Task Force is continuing to investigate the shooting. Johnson is on paid administrative leave.

Tibbs said Johnson is doing as well as can be expected.

The Boise police policy governing the use of deadly force is similar to policies that exist in most departments across the country, said Andrew Giacomazzi, a criminal justice professor at Boise State University. Officers should use the minimal force necessary, but when their lives or the lives of other people are at risk, deadly force is justified.

And there is no difference in how officers should deal with a teenager as opposed to an adult, Giacomazzi said, because officers are trained to judge the person's capability to inflict harm. A teen with a gun could be just as dangerous as an adult with a gun.

"Typically somebody of that age would be treated just like an adult," Giacomazzi said.

Although schools are on holiday break, counselors and school officials will be available at Boise High to talk with students starting at 10 a.m. today.

Principal Ken Anderson said counselors would be available all day and possibly Tuesday if needed. Students also will have access to counselors when they return from break Jan. 3, he said.

"When kids lose a friend like this, regardless of what the circumstances are, they're going to be upset about it," said Anderson.

Boise City Councilwoman Elaine Clegg's daughter is a sophomore at Boise High. Jones' shooting sparked a sense of urgency with Clegg that parents need to start being more up-front with children about the dangers of drug abuse.

"We need to start talking about consequences," Clegg said. "We need to talk about this."

Anderson said the school holds special training sessions for parents about recognizing signs of drug use and communicating with kids about the dangers, but he agreed that there is a greater need because of Jones' death.

"I hate using this young man's tragedy as an example, but we have to be talking about it," he said."
 
I feel sorry for the officer.

I feel sorry for the Jones family in the loss of their, obviously disturbed and out-of-control, son.

I applaud their decision not to blame the officer for doing his job by going into harms way and, ultimately, doing what he had to do.
 
Quick fact summary:

Kid charges policeman with bayonet. Police tells him to stop. He does not. Charges again, this time he stabs the police officer (who is retreating) in the back with the bayonet.

If the facts are as they are presented above, the policeman looks very justified in shooting to me.
 
Congrats to the officer. He went home alive. PARTY TIME!!!
 
The family also asked that the dignity of their son and the officer be preserved, that the investigation be conducted with "the integrity that their son, the officer and the public deserve," and that the shooting "serve the end that no tragedy of this type ever again occur."
Click to expand...

Based on their comments, it sounds like the family of the perp/victim are either a little better spoken than the families of the dead perps that you usually hear commenting, or they've got a better spokesperson.
 
2.5 inches...

A bayonet is specifically designed to kill you.
If someone is taking one to use it on you, he is attempting to kill you.
Similarly, stoning is a method of execution in ancient times, and big surprise, armed gunmen have been known have to defend themselves against mobs with very large rocks.
There is a possibility that the boy could have been brought down another way, but I wasn't there, and neither were the lib press attack dogs. That's what administrative leave and inquiries are for.
I imagine there has to be a lot of grief on every side of this issue. And it doesn't surprise me at all that the finger-pointing is beginning.

As for lethal force. It only takes a 2.5 inch blade to end you. And of someone's strong enough or desperate enough, it doesn't even take that. You don't need a bayonette to beat someone to death with a rifle. Charging a man with a loaded gun is asking for a quick trip to St. Peter's.
 
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Darn shame the officer had to shoot the kid, but from the info given, I don't see any other course of action the cop could have taken.

Never bring a bayonet to a gun fight. And pot is harmless
Click to expand...
"There were signs of violent aggressive behavior in the house," Tibbs said. "There were puncture marks from the bayonet, and we believe that he was pretty agitated."
Click to expand...
And know how to use a bayonet before ya bring one to a gun fight. :banghead: ML, did you not note that their were signs of alcohol use as well? From this laymans perspective, I'd say the kids a much deeper issues than sipping some vino or toking some reefer.
 
When asked why Johnson did not try to merely injure Jones, Tibbs said that given the dangerous circumstance, lethal force was the only option.
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I hate it when people do things like this. The officer was charged with a bayonetted rifle, He was stabbed. He had no way to know if the gun was loaded or not. He sounds like he did the wrong thin.

And the family sounds like they are going to be better people than many of the people shot by police.
 
I'm with critter.

I feel sorry for the officer.

I feel sorry for the Jones family in the loss of their, obviously disturbed and out-of-control, son.

I applaud their decision not to blame the officer for doing his job by going into harms way and, ultimately, doing what he had to do.
Click to expand...

I'll add, I bet the reason the bayonet only tore his shirt is because he was wearing his armor. Otherwise the story may have ended very differantly. :uhoh:

Plus, kudos to Johnson for his proficancy with his weapon which helped protect himself and the public, not just from an imidiate threat, but by avoiding any stray rounds as well.
 
I’m sorry but kid or no kid he would have been DRT way before I placed myself into a position where my only option was to retreat.

Ability + Opportunity = Jeopardy

(When these 3 things are met in GA, deadly force can be used by an LEO)

I have this thing about knifes, maybe it’s psychological, a phobia.

The ones most folks carry today Spidercos Benchmarks etc… are super sharp and will slice you open and you won’t even know it till that warm, moist sensation begins.

I’m not letting you get anywhere near me with a knife, I’ve got my personal safety zone, I will challenge you once then it’s…

“Dispatch shots fired, respond EMS reference GWS. Respond a Supervisor and a Investigator I just put one down.â€

My @$$ is going home at the end of my shift, you can go to jail in the back of my patrol car or the back of an ambulance or the morgue choice is yours.

:(
 
i am suprised it took him that long to shoot the kid.
like to wish he didnt need to kill him, but
no way to know if kid's gun was loaded. what a pinhead.
that nut was not going to live long anyway
 
Of course the officer was justified! In fact, he is lucky that he went home that night.

Do the critics think that a bayonet is harmless? Attached to a rifle, it makes the ultimate spear. Stonewall Jackson much preferred it when his troops could close with the enemy and give them the cold steel as they did at Manassas. The 20th Maine returned the favor to the Confederates at Little Round Top.

Bayonets are deadly!
 
Good shot!

This kid sounds a bit nuts to me

However even mostly harmless pot can uncover mental problems but the key word is uncover - it dosn't make them and they(the problems) would have come out sooner or later from something else.

Don't smoke if your a crazy dude :uhoh:
 
Here are the comments from the family's lawyer. Funny, they keep saying they aren't going to sue for money, yet they bring up these questions and have lawyers allready.

The attorney for the family of Matthew Jones, Rex Blackburn, has been authorized by the Jones family to issue the following statement:

“In light of certain information recently made available to the press, the Jones family reluctantly is compelled to address two issues relating to their son, Matthew, and the investigation of the events leading to his tragic death on December 16, 2004.

Regarding Matthew, the family sadly acknowledges that it had unsuccessfully struggled with Matthew’s substance abuse, a condition which persisted despite his having received regular professional counseling, his participation in a drug treatment program, and the tireless intervention and concern of his parents. The family hopes that Matthew’s tragedy will serve as a sober reminder to others that no degree of drug use is “safe†or harmless.

Regarding the investigation of Matthew’s death, the family has previously stated that it categorically refuses to consider any form of legal action for purposes of monetary gain. It is the family’s desire that the investigation be conducted with integrity and respect for the dignity of those involved. The family acknowledges that Matthew’s behavior on the night of December 16, 2004 was inappropriate. For precisely this reason Matthew’s father sought the assistance of the police. The family’s hope is that the investigation will determine whether police procedures were adequate and whether they were followed, so that a similar tragedy can be avoided. To this end the family is confident that the investigation will address the following matters:

1. Was Matthew’s father’s notification to the 911 dispatcher that the gun was not loaded communicated to the responding officer?

2. Why did the responding officer not utilize a non-lethal form of restraint such as a “stun gun�

3. Did the officer follow proper protocol in exiting his vehicle without the assistance of another officer, and beginning his search for Matthew without first questioning Matthew’s father, who was immediately present and knew of Matthew’s location?

4. Matthew’s father was an eye witness to the shooting and the events immediately before the shooting. Matthew’s father’s observations differ from the reported account of the investigating officer, in that Matthew’s father states that the reporting officer did not attempt to retreat before firing his weapon, did not issue a warning to Matthew to drop the bayonet, and that Matthew never touched the officer or came closer to the officer than a distance of between six and twelve feet. Matthew’s father issued the warning to the officer that Matthew was approaching him. These differences in the accounts of the officer and Matthew’s father raise a number of questions, including:

a. Whether the officer had activated his tape recorder before exiting the vehicle; and,

b. Whether the investigators consider credible the officer’s account that he simultaneously was able to retreat, issue multiple warnings to Matthew that Matthew drop the bayonet, and discharge his weapon multiple times while the bayonet was at his back.

c. Whether the officer’s account is consistent with the absence of gun powdr residue on Matthew’s skin, or any visible residue on his clothing.â€
 
A Taser might have been an option IF the officer had one IMMEDIATLY available on his belt. Think "Tueller drill".

Black Snowman said: I'll add, I bet the reason the bayonet only tore his shirt is because he was wearing his armor. Otherwise the story may have ended very differantly.
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Most bayonets WILL defeat soft body armor by CUTTING through it. A bayonet can kill where a bullet can't. The kid may have been slashing rather than thrusting. You would not want to be wearing a soft vest if I were trying to stick a M1905 US or Patt. 1907 Brit. bayonet through it.
 
Well done to the officer - he went the extra mile, and almost died trying to keep the use of force to minimum. The only Monday Morning Quarterbacking i could possibly say is why he turned around dot eh hid could stab him in the back - but I WAS NOT THERE. I am glad he is OK, and he did the right thing.
 
Blackburn's claim raised new questions about whether Johnson used appropriate force.
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I love this anonymous passive voice construction. Raised by whom? Nobody but the writer, I bet.

As for the lawyer's statement:
Was Matthew’s father’s notification to the 911 dispatcher that the gun was not loaded communicated to the responding officer?
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Even if it was, the officer would be a fool to bet his life that the dad was both honest and knowledgable about the situation.

Even if he had, he knew that a bayonet can kill you just as dead as a bullet.

Why did the responding officer not utilize a non-lethal form of restraint such as a “stun gun�
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Um, because those sometimes fail, and you don't screw around when attacked at close range with long, deadly, pointy things?

Did the officer follow proper protocol in exiting his vehicle without the assistance of another officer, and beginning his search for Matthew without first questioning Matthew’s father, who was immediately present and knew of Matthew’s location?
Click to expand...
The urgency of a f'ed-up kid running around with a deadly weapon putting holes in things pretty much guarantees that the cops aren't going to stop and have a counseling session with dad.

Whether the investigators consider credible the officer’s account that he simultaneously was able to retreat, issue multiple warnings to Matthew that Matthew drop the bayonet, and discharge his weapon multiple times while the bayonet was at his back.
Click to expand...
Just `cause you can't walk and chew gum doesn't mean the officer can't.

And who said, "simultaneously"? It sound like these events happened serially.

1. Drop it!
2. Drop it!
3. (jab) Drop it!
4. (retreat) Drop it!
5. (retreat) (slash)
6. (turn)
7. blam! blam! blam! blam!

Works for me.

c. Whether the officer’s account is consistent with the absence of gun powder residue on Matthew’s skin, or any visible residue on his clothing.
Click to expand...

I dunno. How does the family lawyer draw a conclusion about powder already?

I think the sliced uniform shirt and (probably) vest are a pretty good indication that things were close.
 
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