First handgun - load advice

[TestPilot]

Is it fair to compare the needs of a elite hit squad member to your average Joe Blow citizen whom is not actively targeting criminals?

tarosean,

Yes. It is completely fair.

Whether if the user is a cop, or even a special forces soldier, the purpose of the ammo is to incapacitate the opponent. There is no difference what so ever in that regard.

Are you saying regular citizen's need is different than incapacitating opponents?

Whether if you are actively targeting criminals or not is irrelevant. If you fire that bullet, you want the opponent to go down.

 

[PabloJ]

How bout you try 3 or 4 different jhp rounds in .38 and .357 and see what shoots the most accurately through your gun, and then decide which caliber you prefer to use.

I have done the "leg work" using 2" S&W Model 12. The most favorable recoil impulse, accuracy, low flash was provided with Hornady 158gr XTP JHPs.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

TestPilot,
You can be as defensive as you please and strike back because you don't like the criticism of your posts but much of what you posted was recycled comments common to the misinformed on the Internet. Yell back at me all you want because I'm done with this thread. It's been sidetracked enough already so I won't add to it any longer.

 

[TestPilot]

TestPilot,
You can be as defensive as you please and strike back because you don't like the criticism of your posts but much of what you posted was recycled comments common to the misinformed on the Internet. Yell back at me all you want because I'm done with this thread. It's been sidetracked enough already so I won't add to it any longer.

ArchAngelCD,

OP asked about loads and we were talking about loads, so there was no "sidetrack," you're just running away from a debate you think you won't win. As a matter of fact, OP specifically inquired about 38 Special and 357 Magnum.

How can it be about me not liking your "criticism" since your post only contained your arbitrary declarations and personal attacks, lacking any reasoning or substance which are requirements for a valid criticism?

Now that I am back home and have my references handy, I'll examine your so called "critism" some more.

Regarding you calling my comment about Cirillo false, in Guns, Bullets, and Gunfights, Cirillo worked on calibers stronger than 38 Special for his bullet patent. "In fact, they have worked so well I decided to take out a patent. Since then, I have successfully shot full wad cutters with the most obtrusive nose I could find in .38 Super, 10mm, 40S&W, and most successfully in 45ACP(1996, p34)."

If Cirillo bought the attitude that 38 Special is all you need, as you are wrongfully insinuating, then why is he bothering with anything stronger than 9mm in self-loaders?

"I would not use anything below a 9mm, and I would even consider a 9mm marginal and would try to use +P or better ammo in it. The Glcok 27 in 40S&W would be my choice. In my own case, if I were still on the NYCPD Stakeout Squad, this mini Glock woud be my second gun and the Glock 21 in 45ACP would be my main weapon. My present favorite carry guns are Smith and Wesson double-action-only 40S&W and a Glock 23 in 40S&W(Cirillo, p116)"

Keep in mind that 38 Specials are generally less powerful than 9mm even in +P.

Jim Cirillo's Tales of the Stakeout Squad indicates that his preferred carry gun was 45ACP towards the end of his life(Kirchner, 2008).

Above information is few of many reasons why I would not give up 357 Magnum for 38 Special just because of muzzle flash and noise.

Internet lore? I am prepetuating misinformation from video games? Hopefully this was enough to give you a proper attitude adjustment.

 

[ericp1]

hariph creek:

Thanks for the good advice.

And the reason for the 3 is that this will be nightstand plus concealed. The 2 has less accuracy and not good enough balance for the .357 round and the 4 is a bit much for concealed. Since I could not afford two, I compromised on the 3.
3 is probably sufficiently accurate for the longest distance I would ever need at home (about 7 yards). I am into shot placement. Shot 50x.38 ball, 5x38+P,5x.357 today. 100% of .38 were 8 ring or better. 100% of +P were 7 or better. 357 needs improvement: 1 in 10, 1 in 8, 1 in 7, 2 in 5. Need more 357 practice. The 10 was the first round. Things went downhill from there.

 

[ericp1]

mljdeckard,

Ammo is in very short supply here.
I did manage to get a box each of fairly respectable defense ammo:
.38+P Federal Premium 129 gr Hydra-Shock JHP
.357 Hornady Critical Defense 125 gr FTX.
Will keep eyes open for others, but ammo in Raleigh/Durham area is really scarce right now. Took me 3+ months to find 12 ga 2+3/4 inch #4 buckshot.

 

[ericp1]

Tarosean,

THANKS for the pix. I certainly know ONE round to avoid!

 

[ericp1]

ArchangelCD
Since I did okay on range with the +P I will stick with it at least until I can do 100% in 8 ring or better with .357. Group was small enough with +P that I am sure it can do its job of stopping the threat. And the newly installed Hogue Monogrip did a great job of taming recoil compared to the stock hard rubber with plastic inserts.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

ArchangelCD
Since I did okay on range with the +P I will stick with it at least until I can do 100% in 8 ring or better with .357. Group was small enough with +P that I am sure it can do its job of stopping the threat. And the newly installed Hogue Monogrip did a great job of taming recoil compared to the stock hard rubber with plastic inserts.

It looks like you found the load you should carry. Like I said, the best ammo in the world will do you no good unless you hit what you aim at. Since you are hitting well I would call that very good work and it sounds like you found what you were looking for. Well done!

 

[9mmepiphany]

I'm glad you found a load that you are happy with.

And with that, I think we can put this one to bed

 

[ericp1]

THANKS, all.
Will not bug you again until I need some new advice.

And, FWIW, the Hogue Monogrip install was a piece of cake. Took less than 5 mins (maybe less than two) and needed no tool more exotic than a flat blade screwdriver. And the Hogue is WAY more comfy than the stock grip and fits my big hand better. 50 rounds with the Hogue is less punishing than 20 with the stock grip.