First Impressions, getting to know the Rogers & Spencer, Schuetzen Powder and Lube over Ball.

[Ugly Sauce]

Tried to put some balls through a tough old 3" block of wood. Well seasoned and hard as a rock. Nope, didn't go through!

Well, getting to know "Big Daddy". First time I shot it was with 40 grains of 2fg Swiss, and he seemed to like that. Real nice and low "BOOM", good but slow recoil, and lots of fire and smoke. The next day I tried 40 grains of Schuetzen 4fg, since the Swiss gave me no indication of being a too heavy load. The Scheutzen seemed to recoil less, didn't seem as stout, and was quite a bit more dirty burning. No surprise there, but I found it curious that it did not feel more powerful.

So, I think I'll go back to 2fg Swiss for some accuracy testing, which I've not done or attempted to do with the previous shots. As few as they are, so far. !! More interested in what the chambers will hold, what powder it seems to like best, and does she go off every time? (yes) Does it jam? (NO!) etc.

A curious thing: 40 grains of 4fg Schuetzen is difficult to seat the ball over. I does not like to compress. 40 grains of 2fg Swiss puts the ball right where I want it, and you can feel it crush more. I say curious because usually the same volume of a finer grain powder will fill the chamber less, compared to a coarser grain. In this case, the Schuetzen seemed to fill it more, and crush less. At any rate, to use the Sheutzen I'd have to reduce the charge by at least three grains, which I don't want to do since it already felt like a reduced load. If you wonder why I'm not using 3fg...I'm almost out, and the 1860 likes it so she gets it for now, until I pick up some Swiss 3fg.

Lube over the ball. A million years ago, I tried lube-over-ball. Used Crisco like everyone said, and it was a MESS. Not too long ago, I got to thinking, what if the lube was more solid? So I made up a thicker mixture of Wonder Lube 1000 and bee's wax, and have been experimenting with it with the Remington, 1860, and the Little Brat. (1862PP) It works great, does not splatter all over everything when you fire the gun, and makes a dramatic reduction on fouling in the bore. Two patches will almost clean the barrel. That will be a big plus in the field. Oh the drama!

On powder capacity, we had a discussion about Blackie's claim that it holds 50 grains of powder under a ball, but that does not seem to be the case. I think 40 is the max, and with the Schuetzen that was pushing it, as two balls seated so high they kissed the barrel on rotation. Unacceptable in the field, that could ruin your day. 40 grains of the Swiss 2fg was just right, and left some room for error, or a high seating ball for any reason. On examining my chambers, I do not see how another gun could be machined any deeper, certainly not enough to make a ten-grain difference. So..???

The Rogers & Spencer has not disappointed. The high hammer spur, and stout mainspring make it a bit harder to cock, but not "too hard". I'll be using my left thumb to cock it, but if I need or want to cock it one handed no problem. But, it's not for everyone, and most females would very likely not be able to cock it one handed. I don't plan to lighten up my main spring, but I did look at it, and it is not finely finished, so I will polish it up to remove any possible stress points, or stress risers. Will do that at it's first deep-cleaning.

This pistol has a superb trigger. Nice and light. I'm impressed with the pistol, handles good, feels light in the hand, much lighter than it's actual weight. That's all for now, it's a winner and a keeper.

 

[Captain*kirk]

I agree with your assessment on the hammer, and it has kind of a funky hammer throw, if you know what I mean. Almost like a short-stroker. You would naturally get more 'crush' out of 2F over 3F, and the least out of 4F. 40 gr of 3F filled mine off to the top. I think Blackie's measure is whackadoodle.
That is one handsome gun, sir.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Short throw for sure, I think that's why it needs/has a strong main-spring. But I don't know if they are all like that. I assume you need more spring for a short throw. But only Jack and the Goon know for sure! Probably not the best gun for CAS competition, but it sure is a powerful woods-gun.

On the other hand, the hammer is beautiful, in a funky way, like the hammer on a 1861 Springfield rifle...which is the reason I chose a Springfield over the Enfield. I love the hammer. It's got the look.

Yep I think Blackie jumped the gun when he didn't double check his measure with a scale. However, I don't think his chronograph was whackadoodle, and he was nipping on the heels of 1200fps, which impresses the heck out of me.

 

[Captain*kirk]

However, I don't think his chronograph was whackadoodle, and he was nipping on the heels of 1200fps, which impresses the heck out of me.

That's nothing to sneeze at, in fact, it's closing in on gas check territory for soft lead.

 

[woodnbow]

Maybe amend your lube recipe with a couple ounces of Stihl Synthetic HP lube (yes, the stuff that burns in the premix.) you won’t get any leading up to 1400 fps or so with lead.

 

[LaneP]

Great report, thanks US.

 

[Mizar]

Blackie was using Pyrodex which is said it can be compressed way more than real gunpowder - have not tried it myself, because it's not imported in my country. I believe that, at least on some R&S revolvers one can fill the chambers with 50 grains (by volume measure, not weight!) - they will be filled to the top though. On this page the author claims the same results when using a 1858 NMA and round ball - I'm posting a screen shot of the table which can be found at the middle of the page.
http://poconoshooting.com/blackpowderballistics.html

 

[Navy Six 2]

Back when these guns were still being produced and replacement parts were available, I moderately trimmed down the mainspring on one. Not to the point where it would resemble a modern "lightened" replacement available for most Colt reproductions. There was a marked improvement in the cocking effort and trigger pull. It has continued to be my favorite "shooter", but with no replacements available, I'm not going to take a chance on ruining the original mainsprings on my other R&S's.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Maybe amend your lube recipe with a couple ounces of Stihl Synthetic HP lube (yes, the stuff that burns in the premix.) you won’t get any leading up to 1400 fps or so with lead.

Will have to try that. I need to make up some more lubes anyhow, for both BP and some new-fangled smokeless loads in my new-fangled cartridge revolvers.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Back when these guns were still being produced and replacement parts were available, I moderately trimmed down the mainspring on one. Not to the point where it would resemble a modern "lightened" replacement available for most Colt reproductions. There was a marked improvement in the cocking effort and trigger pull. It has continued to be my favorite "shooter", but with no replacements available, I'm not going to take a chance on ruining the original mainsprings on my other R&S's.

Yep, I don't really want to make any major mods to this gun. As mentioned, my main spring does need to be polished up to eliminate any stress risers, but otherwise I don't mind the heavy hammer at all, as it will be more of a belt-gun than a shooter in the long run. And, using my left hand and thumb to cock brings it back up to "speed" if I need to shoot it fast. Cocking it one-handed is not a problem at all, just a bit slower and slightly awkward compared to a Colt or Remington. In spite of the heavy mainspring, this particular revolver has a very light trigger pull, in fact the best out of my gang of four revolvers. The 1860 is close, but she's been down the Rabbit Hole. Perhaps it has had the trigger pull worked on...what say you, Dickey Dalton?

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Blackie was using Pyrodex which is said it can be compressed way more than real gunpowder - have not tried it myself, because it's not imported in my country. I believe that, at least on some R&S revolvers one can fill the chambers with 50 grains (by volume measure, not weight!) - they will be filled to the top though. On this page the author claims the same results when using a 1858 NMA and round ball - I'm posting a screen shot of the table which can be found at the middle of the page.
http://poconoshooting.com/blackpowderballistics.html

View attachment 1093241

Wow, thank you for posting that. I completely missed it that Blackie was using Pyrodex. That sheds a whole other light on it.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

(by volume measure, not weight!)

I will add, that a measure by volume "should" be the same, or produce, a specific weight. Of course they don't, because what ever type of powder, granulation, moisture content, density, etc. one used to "calibrate" the volume in the first place will be different, or throw a different weight when used with any other powder used in the future. But in theory, volume and weight "should" be the same. 50 grains by volume should throw 50 grains by weight. An adjustable measure "should" throw the specific weight it is set at. Did that make sense?

Now a person can throw all that to the wind, and get along fine just going by what the measure is set at, but I like knowing my measure is 5 grains light. On my flask spouts, I always cut them/adjust them using the scale, so that I know they are throwing a true weight, not just a volume, with the specific powder I'm using.

 

[woodnbow]

I get your meaning but the whole thing is confusing as heck… I have a pistol measure and a rifle measure and I use them as field loading only and less of that than in the old days. Lately I’ve been weighing charges, and then set my Lyman 55 to throw that weight of powder. I’ll load up say 50 charges for rifles or pistols and carry them in the little plastic vials. I check weight every 5th charge and it’s pretty accurate.

 

[Mizar]

Guys, I think you are making it a little bit harder that it really is... For general plinking and shooting, volume measures are perfectly fine. If you really want, then check them with water to see if they really throw the claimed charge - water has a density of more or less 1 (volume to mass ratio, in metric), same as 3FG real gunpowder. Then just go and have fun, don't overthink it.

 

[dickydalton]

Yep, I don't really want to make any major mods to this gun. As mentioned, my main spring does need to be polished up to eliminate any stress risers, but otherwise I don't mind the heavy hammer at all, as it will be more of a belt-gun than a shooter in the long run. And, using my left hand and thumb to cock brings it back up to "speed" if I need to shoot it fast. Cocking it one-handed is not a problem at all, just a bit slower and slightly awkward compared to a Colt or Remington. In spite of the heavy mainspring, this particular revolver has a very light trigger pull, in fact the best out of my gang of four revolvers. The 1860 is close, but she's been down the Rabbit Hole. Perhaps it has had the trigger pull worked on...what say you, Dickey Dalton?

Nope. It was brand spanking new (made in 1990) when I got it. I fired one, maybe? two cylinders and was gonna send it to the Goon but picked up the Tom Ball R&S and sent a 2nd Gen 1860 Colt to Mike instead. Even the Tom Ball gun is hard to cock with a great trigger.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Guys, I think you are making it a little bit harder that it really is... For general plinking and shooting, volume measures are perfectly fine. If you really want, then check them with water to see if they really throw the claimed charge - water has a density of more or less 1 (volume to mass ratio, in metric), same as 3FG real gunpowder. Then just go and have fun, don't overthink it.

Why make it simple, when it's so easy to make it complicated??!!!

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Nope. It was brand spanking new (made in 1990) when I got it. I fired one, maybe? two cylinders and was gonna send it to the Goon but picked up the Tom Ball R&S and sent a 2nd Gen 1860 Colt to Mike instead. Even the Tom Ball gun is hard to cock with a great trigger.

Interesting. Antonio must have really been on the ball when he assembled that R&S. Must have been a Monday morning gun, and he had nothing to drink all weekend. That trigger is nice and light, but not too light.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I get your meaning but the whole thing is confusing as heck

What I'm really trying to say, I think, is that a lot of guys think of weight and volume as two different things. Technically yes, but when it comes to weighing powder, they should be the same. "Should". I hear guys say: "always measure by volume, NOT by weight!!!"

However, you can use either one, and get the same and just as good results either way. Just can't believe the markings on the common and available adjustable brass powder measures. And of course, a good hand and eye, and consistency will throw very accurate weights from a measure. But just might say: 50 "grains" when it's actually 45. !!

I hope that made sense.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

... I'm not going to take a chance on ruining the original mainsprings on my other R&S's.

you can always get a spring.
Make or modify something on your own or commission one.

If a modified spring turned a run of the mill revolver into a favorite shooter it would be a shame to not jazz up others.