Range Report and Penetration Test. Rogers & Spencer

[Ugly Sauce]

I loaded her up with 200 grain LEE bullets, over 30 grains of Swiss 2fg, and she didn't do too bad. Not as accurate as the ball over 40 grains. Look at that old seasoned block of rock-hard wood.
The five holes you see are from the round-ball over 40 grains of Swiss 2fg. They went about halfway through. Today, I flipped the block over and shot it with a slug, The LEE 200 over 30 grains 2fg. Dang. It zipped right through it, and busted that chunk off. I find that interesting, ten less grains of powder, twice the penetration through a very tough medium.

I do understand how a slug and a ball transfer their energy differently. But...wow, I like it. I will probably carry the pistol loaded with slugs, for maximum penetration on large hostile critters, and carry balls for reloads to save a little weight. For wolf or cougar repellent, the ball might be better, but I think the slug will have a better chance of getting through Mr.Grizz's skull, muscle and bone, and into his vital areas better.

The odd number of holes in the target is because I fired one at the block, and then didn't bring as many slugs with me as I thought I had. ! There were no wild flyers.

 

[hawg]

Not too shabby. Yeah the extra weight of the slugs puts a whompin on stuff.

 

[Captain*kirk]

Just curious; have you tried doing a comparo using 3F?

 

[Ugly Sauce]

No, I'm out of it, and when I picked up my recent resupply of powder recently, they had everything but 3fg. I plan to make another trip and get some when I have the time, and they (Buffalo Arms just North of Sandpoint Idaho) have it back in stock. That's why I'm using 2fg and 4fg at the moment.

 

[Bighorserider]

Sometimes too much penetration isn't a good thing. If a projectile zips through the target it isn't delivering all its energy to the target.

 

[Speedo66]

How many grains are the balls?

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Truth, depending on what the target is. On a thin-skinned animal like a wolf or cougar, I think the ball might be better, for that reason. For a frontal shot on any kind of bear, I would want the bullet in order to zip through, or as deep as possible into the target. However, I don't see 30 grains of black, and a 200 grain bullet going all the way through a bear, unless it was a broadside shot, which I would not be taking. !!! Nice bear! Go away!

 

[hawg]

Sometimes too much penetration isn't a good thing. If a projectile zips through the target it isn't delivering all its energy to the target.

I don't care if a bullet delivers all of its energy to the target. If the target is a deer I want a through shot. An entry wound alone isn't likely to leave a blood trail.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

True especially for bear, the one I got last fall, it hardly bled at all, and that ball went through both sides. Just an entry hole might not have left any blood trail.
Of course ball size matters, and my .62 has gone through everything so far, and killed quickly, so I don't think too much energy has been wasted.

Yes, on deer, or any game animal I'd prefer the bullet or ball passing through. (or arrow) On people, that's a whole other subject.

But, it all depends on the target, and what you are trying to do. Shooting a hostile wolf or cougar is different than hunting a wolf, cougar, or deer. (the cougar I got were both through-n-through shots, but it dropped at the first shot) I can see where the fast stepping and expanding ball would deliver some good attention getting smack down. On a hostile bear, using a black powder revolver, I think too much penetration would be just right.

In the past I wouldn't have considered any black powder revolver any kind of bear protection, but with the way the R&S zipped through that tough old block of wood, with the slug, I'm pretty sure it would go through a black bear's skull at least. And that was just the LEE 200 grain bullet. A Kaido must really pack a punch in a .44. But again, don't carry one as my primary weapon, I have a rifle or musket when packing the cap-N-balls. Or Great-Grand-dad's double barrel hammer gun. Or SMLE. Or Monkey Mauser. Or my five pound, three-inch 12guage single shot that I hope I never fire again. Or 03A3. Or...you get the picture.

Had a friend that shot a deer with his rifle, and decided to finish it off with his .44 Caliber 1851 Navy. (yes, one of those) Now he wasn't black powder savvy really, and didn't know enough to shoot the deer in the back of the head, and I don't know how he had the pistol loaded, other than round balls, but he shot it twice in the front of the head, right between the eyes, and both balls expanded/flattened out and didn't penetrate the front of the skull at all. So not enough penetration isn't a good thing either.

 

[gtrgy888]

True especially for bear, the one I got last fall, it hardly bled at all, and that ball went through both sides. Just an entry hole might not have left any blood trail.
Of course ball size matters, and my .62 has gone through everything so far, and killed quickly, so I don't think too much energy has been wasted.

Yes, on deer, or any game animal I'd prefer the bullet or ball passing through. (or arrow) On people, that's a whole other subject.

But, it all depends on the target, and what you are trying to do. Shooting a hostile wolf or cougar is different than hunting a wolf, cougar, or deer. (the cougar I got were both through-n-through shots, but it dropped at the first shot) I can see where the fast stepping and expanding ball would deliver some good attention getting smack down. On a hostile bear, using a black powder revolver, I think too much penetration would be just right.

In the past I wouldn't have considered any black powder revolver any kind of bear protection, but with the way the R&S zipped through that tough old block of wood, with the slug, I'm pretty sure it would go through a black bear's skull at least. And that was just the LEE 200 grain bullet. A Kaido must really pack a punch in a .44. But again, don't carry one as my primary weapon, I have a rifle or musket when packing the cap-N-balls. Or Great-Grand-dad's double barrel hammer gun. Or SMLE. Or Monkey Mauser. Or my five pound, three-inch 12guage single shot that I hope I never fire again. Or 03A3. Or...you get the picture.

Had a friend that shot a deer with his rifle, and decided to finish it off with his .44 Caliber 1851 Navy. (yes, one of those) Now he wasn't black powder savvy really, and didn't know enough to shoot the deer in the back of the head, and I don't know how he had the pistol loaded, other than round balls, but he shot it twice in the front of the head, right between the eyes, and both balls expanded/flattened out and didn't penetrate the front of the skull at all. So not enough penetration isn't a good thing either.

It’s all in the powder charge. I doubt 35 grains of premium powder and roundball would fail to crush a deer skull. If he loaded half charges with a wad and/or left it loaded long enough for the powder to absorb moisture, that would be a more likely result. These guns have a wide variance in performance depending on loading procedure.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

It’s all in the powder charge. I doubt 35 grains of premium powder and roundball would fail to crush a deer skull. If he loaded half charges with a wad and/or left it loaded long enough for the powder to absorb moisture, that would be a more likely result. These guns have a wide variance in performance depending on loading procedure.

I agree, I suspect they were not fresh loads, and possibly/probably light loads. Again, my friend was not a savvy or experienced cap&ball shooter, and at that time the only sidearm you could legally carry when muzzle loading hunting was a black powder pistol. It was not his weapon of choice for sure. Now you can carry anything you want.

I don't think powder will absorb moisture in a sealed chamber, but a lubed wad under the ball will absolutely leach into the powder and deaden the load in a short period of time. I've experimented with that quite a bit. For sure, I would think a fresh charge of even 30 grains under a ball would go through the front/thick part of a deer-skull, even though it was a pretty hefty white-tail buck that he shot.

However, I sure gave him a bad time as to shooting/finishing off big game by trying for the thickest part of the skull! Even my .36 with round ball and a moderate load goes right through the back of the skull, and straight into the brain.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

How many grains are the balls?

I think they run about 140 grains, I'm using .454's.