First Lead Bullet Reloading Attempt...

[Quizcat]

Missouri 170 gr (IDP #2) bullet you have on hand should measure around .401".

Yes, calipers measure .401" perfectly...

If you have some factory ammunition on hand, measure the diameter of case mouth and bullet base. If .400" jacketed diameter bullet was used, the measurements should be .420"-.421" at the bullet base and less at the case mouth, depending on the taper crimp manufacturer used.

Corbon 165 JHP Factory Ammo measures .420" at the base with my calipers...

I just think my own technique is off with respect to measuring the ID of the bore...I'll fiddle with it again tonight. When I reported the bore diameter before, I was considering my measurements of the slug too, which I think were probably off. I'll see what I get just off the ID calipers later tonight.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Fiddle shmiddle. Micrometer velociraptor. Cart/horse and all, since it's been established/conceded you aren't likely to blow up your gun, perhaps drop the hammer.

 

[Quizcat]

Will do, if it ever stops raining

If it keeps raining, will fiddle with dicombobulator velocerator...those devices I can afford!

 

[popper]

Dump the FCD, taper crimp to remove enough bell from the case for the case to chamber. Mine chamber fine without removing all the bell. Don't worry about the size now, they are .401 and you can't do anything about it. Most 40SW won't take a .402 anyway. Seat them as long as you can without feeding or nose denting problems. I shot ~1k of MBC before I started casting, they work fine. Can I afford a dicombobulator velocerator? Sounds like fun.

 

[Quizcat]

Still Raining...Soooooo,

I wanted to see how many firearms would plunk. I had access to several for this test. The test rounds all plunked in the S&W M&P40C, the Springfield Armory XD40, the Steyr S40A1, the Taurus PT140, and the Kahr CW40.

However, it's interesting to note that the chamber on the Kahr was slightly tighter. They did not plunk as readily as all the rest of these models. They plunked, but you had to help them along, sometimes, just with about 5 or 6 out of 28 rounds total.

Six of the rounds had initially been prepared using the FCD, which I have since gotten away from, but I have these rounds still left over from my initial reloading session, the one that initiated this thread.

It has become abundantly clear to me that I do not need the FCD in order to plunk, which is the important test for proper size prior to going to the range versus using the pistol gauge. I buy that...but, shall strive to conclusively prove that they will also all chamber and cycle in the test. This evidence will conclude my complete attitude adjustment with respect to the advice that the FCD is not necessary. I anticipate all will chamber and eject, of course, I have complete faith in the sage advice I've received. But, flawless cycling and ejection remains to be physically proven.

The remainder of the loads, were (18) @ 1.125" OAL, and (4) that vary from 1.121" to 1.129" OAL. The (18) and the (4) were made using just the standard seating die/taper crimp die.

I'll test fire them all just to see how they react based on their variables, and report back to the forum...someday, when it stops raining.

 

[LiveLife]

Since you have some time on your hands, take the Max OAL load that passed the barrel drop/spin test and feed from the magazine to verify Ideal OAL that will reliably feed/chamber for all of your pistols.

If I were you, I would also load some 6.4 gr and 6.6 gr test loads (say 10 each charge) to map accuracy trends with.

I don't know if the SWC's are more accurate ... or even if that's all been disproved as a myth from the past with respect to accuracy.

SWC bullets are favored by match shooters as they "cut" cleaner "larger" holes on targets than RN bullets that merely "push aside' the target paper/cardboard. Some matches will score only holes inside the lines and scorers will actually push on the target from the back. So often, what appeared to be "A" zone hits will get scored as "B" zone hits.

As to bullet accuracy, it depends on powder and charges used. I usually make a direct link between consistent chamber pressures leading to consistent muzzle velocities (with lower SD numbers) that will result in tighter shot groups. For lead bullets, the build up of chamber pressure starts with the bearing surface of the bullet (part of the bullet that rides the rifling) engaging the start of rifling.

If you compare the 170 SWC and 180 TCFP bullets in the picture above, you'll note that the bearing surface of the two bullets are comparable in length (like 45ACP 230 RN vs 200 SWC). For match shooting, this gives the reloader the benefit of a lighter bullet with the same bearing surface length that can produce lighter felt recoil with larger holes for improved scoring.

For slower burning powders (say slower burning than W231/HP-38/Unique), consistency of powder burn and chamber pressures are usually obtained near the max load data powder charges. If I am loading full-power loads with jacketed bullets (using verified once-fired cases), this is fine but most of my range/practice rounds are loaded using mixed headstamp cases with unknown reload history. To reduce pressure related case failure concerns (especially for high pressure 40S&W loads), I prefer to back down from near max load data and use mid-to-high range load data. But to maintain consistent chamber pressure build up that will produce consistent muzzle velocities (accuracy), I need to use faster burning powders. Mid-to-high range W231/HP-38 load data do this pretty well and do not overly bulge the 40S&W cases even in generous chambered barrels.

Not sure about your Taurus PT140, but my PT145 has generous chamber compared to M&P45/Sig 1911 and has fed SWC loads smooth like butter. If I had to choose between SWC vs TCFP for match shooting, it would be SWC bullet.

BTW, Z Cast Bulletz does make 14-16 BHN180 gr RNFP bullet for 40S&W and I am waiting for an assortment of bullets to be shipped. I can post my range report of the bullets or send you a sample of the bullets along with a sample of all of Missouri 40 S&W bullets.

 

[Quizcat]

Yeah, those are great ideas. After reading those chapters you sent, bds, I was thinking that the powder charge may need to be increased anyway in order to be using the optimum charge in the end. Isn't Power Pistol considered pretty fast burning? How does it compare to
W231/Unique/HP-38?

Also, please keep in mind, that my goal is to closely simulate the Self Defense real world in my practice, so if anyone has a powder recommendation that can also bring the whole range experience with respect to the way the pistol acts with Self Defense JHP 165Gr factory ammo, please let me know. I currently have Bullseye, Unique, Power Pistol, Universal Clays, and Hodgdon Longshot in one pound containers. I probably won't be buying anything more until I go through what I have. So, let me know if one of these is recommended over the other for what I'm trying to achieve. But, also let me know what I might consider buying next to replace these as I go through them. I am totally open.

The whole issue of unsupported chamber, and bulge, and potential KABOOM is also in the forefront of my consideration, since I will be using the Taurus for the test subject, which has an unsupported chamber. So, it is kind of a balancing act with all the various considerations.

Lots to think about, eh?
1. Flawless Cycling
2. No KABOOM
3. Reduced or eliminated bulge
4. Recreation of Self Defense factory ammo experience
5. No Leading, Oburation, etc...
6. Possible use between a variety of different models of firearms.
7. Best Accuracy

I will try to get to those suggestions tonight with respect to increasing powder charge, after my wife makes me take her out to dinner. Just kidding honey!

 

[popper]

Use dummy rounds for your mag/feed tests. My Px4 is tighter chamber than my XDm40. You may see dents in the nose when hand cycling, don't worry they aren't there when fired. Check this by firing a round and the ejecting the next, dent won't be there, hopefully. Get one of those underground sprinkler riser pipes, the green threaded ones, to clear any jams you get from not in full battery. Place in front of the bbl and slam it against something hard.

 

[LiveLife]

For me, how "hot" I load my rounds depends on the reload history of my brass cases. If verified once-fired, I set them aside in my "once-fired" box for full-power loads using near max load data and slower than W231/HP-38 powders (Unique, Universal, PowerPistol, WSF, AutoComp).

For mixed range brass with unknown reload history, I use W231/HP-38 and mid-to-high range load data that will produce lower chamber pressures and not bulge the case base. When I am resizing mixed range brass and come across one that won't fully resize, I will rotate the case 90 degrees and attempt to resize again. If I can't resize the second time, I deem the case too far stretched (thinned case walls do not magically get thicker even when you run them through "bulge buster" or undersized U-die) and toss them in the recycle bin to be taken in later for scrap brass.

BTW, before you load any near max charge loads, I highly recommend the use of check weights to verify the accuracy of powder charges regardless of scale type you are using (beam or digital) - http://www.midwayusa.com/product/212586/lyman-shooters-weight-check-set

I mix the check weights to come close to the powder charge I am using (6 - 6.5 gr in your case) and verify that my scale is reading the same.

$27 is cheap insurance - better to be safe than BOOM.


As to duplicating factory loads for practice, I have been using the same bullet type/bullet weight (Remington Golden Saber JHP/Speer Gold Dot HP) and WSF to load my back up/practice JHP rounds (BTW, I use factory JHP for SD/HD). You could use different bullet type (plated/lead) but the key factor for me would be duplicating the felt recoil/POA/POI characteristics of factory JHP rounds.

Interestingly, when I did load development for 9mm/40S&W using Promo with Red Dot load data and Missouri 9mm 124 gr RN (SmallBall), it produced comparable/slightly less 9mm felt recoil as factory Remington Golden Saber 124 gr JHP +P rounds (I now use this load to practice with when I am using 9mm conversion barrels in my 40S&W Glocks). With W231/HP-38 high-to-near max load data, I can come close to 40S&W Golden Saber 165 JHP felt recoil.

Therefore, you should try different bullets/powders and see whichever works for you.

 

[Quizcat]

I highly recommend the use of check weights

Got a set of RCBS check weights in here from Midway today. They're on sale right now. I brought in the 60 grain set. Wow, from the photo on Midway's website, I expected them to be bigger in size. They're teeny tiny aren't they?

I haven't figured out what the small bar shapes are for. Can you advise?

They aren't marked with any weight that I can see. The weights are marked, and they come in a small snap shut plastic box.

The little bars also come in a small snap shut box as well. There are no directions with the set, so I have no idea what the little bars are for.

I have an RCBS 500 series scale, and it checked out perfect with the check weights today.

I noticed that using the check weights, the line you read from rests just on the top of the beam line. I had been reading from the middle of the beam line in the past. So, based on the check weights, I should probably be reading the one line directly on top of the beam line.

That still indicates that the scale is really quite accurate, but it helped me realize that I might be reading it off by about a quarter of a grain.

I did make up (10) 6.5 grain charges with Power Pistol before receiving the check weights, so it's good the scale checked out.

I am going to make (10) more rounds at 6.2 grains. Then, I'll try to find some time to test them all, and report back.

 

[LiveLife]

To zero your beam scale, place it on a level surface and after setting the poise at zero, rotate the feet on one side of the scale until pointer reads right on the mark.

The bars of the check weights are small weights in the range of ½, 1, 2, and 5 grains etc.

 

[Krogen]

I haven't figured out what the small bar shapes are for. Can you advise?

Those are lighter weights - 1/2 grain, 1 grain etc. Should be a leaflet in the box that tells you what they are by shape. My Lyman set came with a leaflet many moons ago. You could weigh them and see what you get.....