First malfunction with my PT140 Millennium Pro- massive failure!

[chaim]

I took several guns out today to the range, including my PT140 Millennium Pro with 50 rounds of 165gr WWB FMJ.

This gun has seen 400 rounds without failure before today. You've often heard me bragging about it.

Well, on the 441st round I had a complete and total failure. I couldn't even open the gun up afterwards.

It was clearly an ammo failure, not a failure of the gun itself (I thought I'd get your attention with what I wrote above ).

I was firing away and on the 441st round (the 41st today) it sounded like a cap gun. I figured it was a squib round and waited about a minute. No delay fire so I then drop the mag and tried to rack the slide. This failure locked up the gun completely making me think at the time maybe it wasn't the round afterall. After a while I gave up trying to rack the slide and got one of the range staff. He got a hammer and brass rod in case the bullet was stuck in the barrel (it wasn't). Eventually he was able to get the round out and fired two test rounds to be sure my gun was fine (it was).

The primer was completely blown out. This somehow bulged the case and the rim which is why I was unable to rack the slide and it took 20min of working on it and a lot of force from the range staff to finally free it..

So the round count on my gun is now 450 rounds with no gun related failures, and one massive ammo failure.

BTW- this was one of two issues I had today using WWB ammo.

I was shooting WWB .38spl today. On my last two rounds there was clearly a problem. I had been shooting away with no problems. Then on the second to last round of the stuff it was more of a "fiisssst" sound than "bang". It did have enough force behind it to force the bullet out of the barrel luckily so with no obstruction I shot my last shot. It was a bang far beyond the other WWB rounds. It seemed like the one round only got about half the normal powder and the next one got the regular powder plus what was missing from the round before- luckily I was shooting .38 out of a .357mag so the +P+ or +P++ overcharge didn't hurt the gun.

So, these two ammo problems, despite thousands of trouble free rounds of WWB in the past, has me reconsidering ever using WWB again. I'll probably shoot off what I have left (a few hundred rounds- 30 in .357mag, 50 in .40S&W, and a few hundred 9mm) but never buy it again.

I've been using the WWB JHP as my defensive ammo when using a .40S&W or .45ACP and I'll definately never use that again. This ammo problem I had in my Taurus PT 140 M. Pro would have easily led to my getting shot in a self-defense situation since it completely took the gun out of action.

 

[Daniel T]

It sounds like the primer pocket in your 441st round was not drilled all the way through. Better that than a protruding primer, though. I'm glad your pistol was not damaged.

Luckily, I haven't had any problems with WWB, other than non-critical quality issues. A flier is better than an exploder, eh?

 

[sumpnz]

I've found the WWB to overall be very consistent ammo. Both in .40S&W and .45ACP. I've chrono'd a bunch in both calibers and both showed very consistent velocities, and very consistant POI.

Only had two cases where the ammo caused a failure (both times with .45ACP). I was shooting my new (used) Sig P245 and had one round fail to fully chamber. I think it was the exact same round I thought I had gotten rid of when test firing a Springfield Ultra Compact (same failure to fully chamber). The brass case was crippled near the mouth from the bullet being slightly offset during seating. I made extra sure I dumped that round in the trash so it wouldn't get mixed in with the good ammo again.

FWIW, the WWB .45ACP (230gr hardball) averaged around 780fps from the 3.9" barrel of my Sig, and the WWB .40S&W (165gr harball) averaged just under 1000fps from my Ruger P94 (4 3/16" barrel). I have the data at home, but I seem to recall the spread was very tight, like around 30fps for 30-40 shots, usually with one low velocity shot that would open up the spread.

 

[Dave R]

FWIW, if you ever have a semi-auto lock up again, to where you can't rack the slide, try this trick.

With a strong, but somewhat pointy device (like a good pen), press firmly on the BASE of the extractor, behind its pivot. At the same time pull back on the slide. The extractor should release the stuck case, and you can get at it (and remove it) more easliy.

I learned that trick from shooting Wolf 9mm in my BHP. Generally, when the slide won't retract its because the extractor is still gripping the base of the stuck case.

Of course, you need an external extractor to make this work.

 

[DT Guy]

My guess is the misfired revolver round left unburnt powder in the cylinder and barrel, which was ignited by the following (normal) round. Hence the 'extra spicy' setting on follow-up shot.


Larry

 

[The Drew]

I had a round like that in my XD 40 the primer pocket wasn't drilled all the way through and the primer bulged way out and locked up the pistol... My extractor slipped passed the rim so I could see that it was an ammo problem.

Brass rod pounded it out rather quickly. Then I disassembled the round to determined the problem.

Found a full charge of powder, and no primer hole...

I have avoided WWB in .40 ever since.

 

[GunGoBoom]

I learned that trick from shooting Wolf 9mm in my BHP. Generally, when the slide won't retract its because the extractor is still gripping the base of the stuck case.

Of course, you need an external extractor to make this work.

Ha! There you have it, classic 1911 guys - a good reason for an external extractor.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

This gun has seen 400 rounds without failure before today. You've often heard me bragging about it.

I am sure it is a good gun, but bragging about 400 rounds is setting one's sights a little low. That is sort of like saying your car hasn't needed any repairs for the first 10 fillups.

Glad to hear the ammo problem didn't damage the gun.

 

[chaim]

I am sure it is a good gun, but bragging about 400 rounds is setting one's sights a little low.

I admit that these were poorly constructed sentences. The subject of the sentence that "it" was refering to wasn't the 400 rounds but the gun.

I am often bragging about the gun. It is a very well made gun and quite impressive, especially for the price. Fit and finish is very good (though the bluing durability does seem to leave a little to be desired with some scratches and holster wear starting to show after only a few months and barely any carry). Build quality and workmanship is obviously good. Feel is great. Accuracy is very good to great at combat ranges (short and medium range). Reliability has been good so far (400 rounds, in the initial 400 rounds, without any break-in issues isn't bad- most of my autos had at least one break-in issue, even if subsequent issues were rare or non-existent, though I don't remember for sure if my former CZ40B had any break-in issues or not).

As for the 400 rounds, now 450, like I say above, it is still impressive. It isn't uncommon for a gun to have some break-in issues. I had one or two bobbles in the first 500 rounds with my CZ75B, though it has been quite reliable since. I had one or two minor issues in the first 70 rounds with my Bersa, even though it has been 100% since. My 1911 (a Charles Daly) had a couple early bobbles even though it is pretty reliable. I don't remember any bobbles out of the CZ40B I used to have, but I can't say for sure it was 100% reliable (I think it had one, because I remember thinking about it having one afterwards, but I can't actually remember the bobble so I could be wrong). I think the Ruger P89 I used to own was 100% from the beginning, but I don't remember for sure. My best friend's CZ85B and Kimber are very reliable but both had some break-in issues. Same with his new Kahr PM9. The only gun he had that was 100% from the very beginning was his Kahr MK9. I don't consider a gun going 400 or 450 rounds as particularly impressive, but I do consider a semi-automatic gun going its first 400 or 450 without a bobble to be impressive.