First mauling of the year

[heycatman]

Blame is also a non-sequitur. You may or may not fault the hunter's methods. I don't think we know enough to come to any conclusions about that. But the *bear* has no rights whatsoever including a right to due process or self defense. Conversely, you cannot sue the bear or take it to court for mauling you. Blame, fault, and so on are concepts for the human world not the bear world. This isn't demonizing the animal, it's simply recognizing that it is a wild animal and therefore beyond the reach of these concepts.

Saying the bear attacked the man is not assigning fault to the bear, because you cannot assign fault to the bear. Trying to come up with some neutral term like "a bear incident" is just silly. The bear ATTACKED him. That's a description of the physical events, not of any legal or moral blame. You cannot place legal or moral responsibility on the wild animal.

Cosmo, You're the one turning this into a legal argument making it sound silly and/or non-sequitur as you often repeat yourself many times in one sentence and/or thread while not fully reading/addressing other posts? I said nothing of moral responsibility, legal responsibility, hunting methods or blame. More so that using "attack" gives a certain public perception... I took the time to site the meaning of attack, as it would apply to this situation,for you:
at·tack

er n.
Synonyms: attack, bombard, assail, storm, assault, beset
These verbs mean to set upon, physically or figuratively. Attack applies to offensive action, especially to the onset of planned aggression:
source - thefreedictionary_com

IF you don't understand what I'm saying it's that attack insinuates specifically "planned, aggression". Not to mention in of itself (in this situation) is a form of Anthropomorphism or furthering the attribution of human characteristics to an animal much like assigning legal responsibility or blame, something you are trying to argue against. By your standards (according to your previous posts) is "because you cannot assign fault to the bear...cause it's a bear" paraphrase - cosmoline. By your definition, attack used as a noun can also NOT be properly attributed or in your words is "non-sequitur" to the bear's behavior. But it was the headline of the article and written by you multiple times.

One need only to read your response to find the counter argument to it. This is a sign of contradicting ideas and/or illogical concepts. SO, please don't direct arguments towards me until you at least understand my pontifications. I'm trying to remain constructive not arguing to be right. I consider calling my ideas "silly" or "non-sequitur" an attack on me. This would be the correct use of the word attack by your and it's literary definition's standards.

 

[.338-06]

Here is a very interesting dissertation on Black bears written by a man in Ontario, Canada. He lives in and has lived for many years among the Black bears of Ontario. He not only believes in hunting them, but he dispells the "Disney image" of the "cute, cuddly, fuzzy wuzzy Black bears."

http://www.ontarioblackbears.com/#Black Bears are not Monsters



Very true, and the same goes for wolves, regarding that old nonsense by the bunny huggers, "There has never been a wolf attack against a human in North America." Therefore, no need to ever worry about wolves in the outdoors.

L.W.

Well, since last year they can't say that anymore.

Last year (3-12-10), a woman was killed by wolves near Icy Bay, Alaska.

 

[KodiakBeer]

It was in Cold Bay, Alaska.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Very true, and the same goes for wolves, regarding that old nonsense by the bunny huggers, "There has never been a wolf attack against a human in North America." Therefore, no need to ever worry about wolves in the outdoors.

L.W.

Well, since last year they can't say that anymore.

Last year (3-12-10), a woman was killed by wolves near Icy Bay, Alaska.

I don't think they could have ever claimed no wolf attacks in North America.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_attacks_on_humans
http://www.aws.vcn.com/wolf_attacks_on_humans.html

There is quite a bit of history of such attacks.

 

[MCgunner]

There was some lady killed by Yotes up in the NE somewhere, Ontario? I don't get real worried about Yotes, though. I've killed a few for the heck of it. They kill chickens and such. Hey, if you're paranoid of nature, buy a flat in NYC and don't go to central park.

Hasn't been a wolf in Texas since about 1980, when the red wolf was pronounced extinct here. I got to see one in the 70s crossing a road on my way out to go goose hunting on San Bernard WMA. That was neat and something to remember. People didn't kill 'em off, though. They were bred out of existence by coyotes migrating in from the west hybridizing them. Yotes have replaced the red wolf.

 

[Leanwolf]

DOUBLE NAUGHT SPY - " I don't think they could have ever claimed no wolf attacks in North America. ... There is quite a bit of history of such attacks."

Indeed there is. But "history" is meaningless to the zealots. Only "emotions" are of any importance. Therefore, when their Masters tell them, "No person in North America has ever been attacked by wolves, so they are no threat and should never be hunted," they gobble up the pap and vomit it out as "fact."

L.W.

 

[Cosmoline]

I'm not trying to single you out, but as happens every time a mauling makes the news there's a lot of misinformation flying around.

IF you don't understand what I'm saying it's that attack insinuates specifically "planned, aggression".

It simply means the physical act of aggression: "to set upon in a forceful, violent, hostile, or aggressive way, with or without a weapon; begin fighting with: He attacked him with his bare hands."

That's a statement of what happened here. The verb is appropriate. To replace it with "incident" makes no sense at all. If a bear bites off important parts of my anatomy, I'm not going to be happy to see someone calling it an "incident." If you don't like the word attack, use the word maul.

 

[wombat13]

Mmm, well, maybe Canadian black bears like human meat, but I don't recall ever hearing of such a predatory black bear attack in the south or SW USA. Odd. Most of the black bear attacks I've heard about really weren't much of an attack, bears smelling and scrounging for food left in a tent at night or something. Don't sleep with your food. Keep some pepper spray handy, that's always a good thing in bear country. Now that we can carry concealed legally there, I normally carry in national parks. I'd never wanna have to shoot a bear in a national park, though. I'd probably spend the rest of my retirement in a federal prison regardless of the details of the attack. I carry for the human attackers, could get away with killing a human attacker quicker than killing a bear. Pepper gas seems a far better alternative to that. If I were in a national forest or something, not a park, have spent a lot of time hunting in SE New Mexico in the past, probably be easier to SSS....shoot, shovel, and shut up. I still prefer to allude or use pepper spray to shooting. Avoids conflict with the law.

I have heard of predatory attacks by griz. That idiot, Timothy what's his face, the bear guy that got ate in Alaska, well, they found his body parts in that bear along with his girl friend as I recall. That was a predatory attack without doubt.

Yes, black bears have been known to attack and eat people. Here is the American Hunter article I mentioned in an earlier post:

http://www.americanhunter.org/articles/what-bear-attacks-tell-us/

Note the story of the 11 year old boy killed by a predatory black bear in Utah. Also here is the important quote:

"According to Stephen Herrero’s research, 18 of 20 black bear killings of people he investigated were the result of predation. The bears had decided to eat someone. The time of day could be verified in 15 of these 20 attacks and, of those 15 killings, 14 occurred during daylight. So always fight back when a black bear attacks."

Here is another article based on Herrero's research, also indicating that most black bear attacks are predatory:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/11/science/11bears.html

This is a good example of for understanding probabilities. There are several times more black bears than grizzlies in the U.S., however, many more people are attacked and have been killed by grizzlies. Therefore, the probability that you will be attacked if you are in the vicinity of a grizz is higher than if you are in the vicinity of a black bear. On the other hand, looking at actual bear attacks, a much higher percentage of black bear attacks are predatory, i.e., they want to eat you. Therefore, if you are attacked by a black bear, it probably wants to eat you, so playing dead is a very bad plan.

 

[elkdomBC]

I have personally witnessed a pack of timber wolves kill a mature bull moose in the winter ( about 1000 pounds live weight), late afternoon, minus -35 F, by the next morning at 9am, when returning to the wolf kill location, only a large patch or blood( about30 feet in diameter) and a small section of the bull moose spinal column( 3feet long) remained as proof of a kill, all other parts were consumed, just some hide and hair, and lots of blood on the snow,

had it been a human, there would be not much to ever indicate wolves consumed something!
many wolves here go 120 pounds and even larger,,,
I have killed many wolves over the years, they are ultimate predators and incredibly wary,and very tough to hunt without bait,
the largest I killed was 8 ft, tail tip to nose, weighed 136 pounds

 

[wombat13]

There was some lady killed by Yotes up in the NE somewhere, Ontario? I don't get real worried about Yotes, though. I've killed a few for the heck of it. They kill chickens and such. Hey, if you're paranoid of nature, buy a flat in NYC and don't go to central park.

Hasn't been a wolf in Texas since about 1980, when the red wolf was pronounced extinct here. I got to see one in the 70s crossing a road on my way out to go goose hunting on San Bernard WMA. That was neat and something to remember. People didn't kill 'em off, though. They were bred out of existence by coyotes migrating in from the west hybridizing them. Yotes have replaced the red wolf.

Coyotes probably don't pose a threat to your safety, but if you have small children or grandchildren it is a different story.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38015001/ns/us_news-life/t/nd-ny-coyote-attack-girl-bitten-backyard/

 

[wombat13]

It seems that everybody likes the idea of "nature" and the romance of coexisting with wild animals, including bears, wolves, coyotes, etc. That is, everybody likes the idea until it is their pet, livestock, or child that is attacked or killed. Then all of a sudden the actions of our ancestors make sense. Gee, I guess there was a reason that people eradicated wolves, etc.

 

[elkdomBC]

the woman in NE Canada alleged killed by coyotes, actually was overcome by a medical issue,
she was consumed by coyotes, as she was for all intensive purposes something the "coyotes" scavenged upon finding, as anything else they find,,,,,

 

[MCgunner]

Well, after this thread, I'm thinkin' of getting fitted for chain maille. ROFL! I'm not a tree hugger, by any means, but I think people get pretty paranoid about predators and wanna kill every one they come across, carry their .500 Smith, shoot a black bear out of a tree, and try to say it was attacking them as they're being arrested by the game warden. I'm just trying to interject some perspective here. You're FAR more likely to be attacked by another predatory human than a bear, at least in the lower 48. Doesn't stop me from going to the mall, but that's why I carry a gun as my constant companion, 2 or 3, actually.

 

[KodiakBeer]

While this thread has run, we've had two different attacks by moose in this state. There was a couple more back in March, making a total of four this spring - four reported. I didn't bother posting the links since we're having so much fun with wolves and bears, why muddy the water with moose attacks? But now that things are slowing down...

http://www.newsminer.com/view/full_story/13377968/article-Moose-with-2-calves-shot-after-attack-on-Alaska-woman?

http://www.adn.com/2011/03/15/1757303/boy-6-kicked-by-moose-after-leaving.html

http://www.adn.com/2011/03/21/1768067/haines-woman-escapes-moose-attack.html

 

[MCgunner]

Got a friend that's a wildlife photographer... www.jameshersey.com . He got chased by a moose once. His story is hilarious when he tells it. He also got stalked by a mountain lion in the Guadalupes, GNP in McKitrick canyon for those that have been there. He said it was a youngster and probably just playing with him. I told him I've seen my cats "play" with a mouse..not good if you're the mouse. He ran it off by swinging the only weapon he had on him at the time, a tripod. I think that one sorta shook him up a bit. He's no tree hugger type, either, has a CCW permit in Texas. I've duck hunted and dove hunted with him, but he mostly hunts with his camera.

 

[Art Eatman]

This seems to have strayed a wee tad from the original startup.