First time AR-15 buying advice

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maddmagician

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Hello, everyone. I will have some extra cash here soon and would like to buy an AR-15. The thing is, I know very little about the details on them and would love some advice on what's good for the money. I'd like to keep the price under $1,000 and I am only looking to start with something basic as I understand that you can do lots to customize them after the purchase. Any advice is much appreciated!

~Maddmagician
 
Without knowing what you want to do with an AR (plinking, DCM High Power, SD/HD, varmint hunting, medium game hunting?), I'll make a few recommendations on the de facto standard 16" bbl carbine. However, my recommendations and those of others might be different once we know your intended use.

The M&P-15 Sport can be found for under $600 shipped from several online dealers - http://www.slickguns.com/search/apachesolr_search/?keys=M&P+sport&op=. It's a great entry level AR, and it leaves plenty of room in the budget for spare mags, ammo, etc.

On the other hand, if the $1000 budget is just for the rifle, and you have other funds set aside for mags and ammo, there are better options. If you look around you can find a Colt 6920 for under $1k shipped - http://www.slickguns.com/product/colt-le6920-m4-carbine-556nato-16-barrel-super-stock-111999.

Much as I like the 6920, I think the S&W M&P-15T for about the same price is a better deal for what you get - http://www.slickguns.com/search/apachesolr_search/?keys=811041&op=.
 
I think it'd be hard to do better than the M&P Sport for the $600 price. I'd like to pick one up myself.

If you're willing to spend the whole amount on just a rifle and maybe, maybe... go over just a little, I'd take a hard look at the Colt 6920 or something from Bravo Company.
 
Take a look at the Windham Weaponry SRC. I've got one and love it. It's a good place to start from. Doesn't have any sights included but the price is low enough you'll have money left over for whatever optics you want. I'd also second the advice of buying a few Pmags and ammo.
 
Just taking the OP's stated intent " I have money and want an AR."

Does that even begin to explain what he would do with it? In the strict sense of what the gun is for, then knowing what distance he plans to shoot at, and what the target is, would narrow things down quite a bit. Absent that, it's a bit up in the air.

What do first time gun owners do with it? Go shoot it at a range, which is going to be less than 200 yards. More like 50, just to sight it in. That means it needs an optic or sights, which for a new owner would means some sort of iron sights already on it. That includes the carry handle models, or involves one to get a rear sight on it if it's a flattop (which is preferred.)

So, it's going to like have a front sight and rear sight included. That becomes an top of the list priority as part of the purchase.

The more popular AR's are carbines with adjustable stocks. Another indication of what to find on the market. Again, we don't have much to go on, so what sells is about the only help.

Most carbines are black. The fixed stock models tend toward camo for hunters, don't forget the sight or optic as that model even in manual action guns leaves them off.

Some Pmags in a matching color, and at least one ten round that could be blocked to five if state hunting regs require it. New owners can and do go hunting with their new rifle as that is part of the big picture - get in the outdoors in the fall and hunt a deer. Better to go with a legal mag than have the trip turn out badly.

If the flattop is picked with no optic, then the lower priced rifles are the focus so that a red dot or low powered scope can be affordably mounted. Something in the $200 range means you don't buy junk that falls apart in a year or two. It needs to have it's own riser mount built into the optic, or you get soaked for another $50 to $100 for another mount and/or rings. That issue isn't usually predicted up front, it comes later as a gotcha.

Get out and go to gunstores, handle the guns. See how a fixed stock works, vs adjustable. Feel whether the fat issue handguard is comfortable vs a skinny free float. Shop what is out there to see which features you like vs the budget. You can buy the option on the firearm cheaper than switching it out later - yes customizing is nice, but it comes with a price. What happens when you take the cheaper less well equipped rifle and up grade it is you then pay retail for the part and the ones you took off are now used. The loss of money on having unneeded used parts to get rid of is added to the cost of the new part and it starts looking really expensive at that point.

Better to buy it right the first time if the budget can allow, because it will be cheaper.

Don't consider building because it will take longer to find parts in this market and they are all retail, which adds 20 - 25% to the finished price.

Stick to a budget but don't forget that some things have to be included if not on the gun up front. Once it boils down to the last two or three models, then pick whatever roll mark looks cool and you like the most. The guns won't have much different between them other than that, and might even have come out of the same factory and CNC machine. They just don't talk about it much.
 
I really appreciate the advice so far! Honestly, I am more of a plinking-type shooter than anything at this time. I do plan to go (most likely deer) hunting in the semi near future, I have some friends who are going to show me the ropes. As for hunting, I live in Kentucky and you can use rifles and I do not think there is a magazine limit here. Can anyone tell me what makes the Colt worth ~$400 more than the S&W? Am I just paying for the name or is it really twice the gun?
 
What do you guys think about this one: http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_763_977/products_id/71969

I could get it for $636 out the door with the cash discount and I live close enough to this dealer that I could go there and avoid shipping. Other than ammo and additional magazines, it seems complete enough to start. Another question, what is the significance of the rate of twist? Does that put more velocity on the bullet or make it more accurate or what?
 
depending on what bullets you plan to shoot, you might want to go with a 1:8 or 1:7 twist rate. If you are going to be shooting 55-62, then 1:9 is fine. The twist rate determines what weight of bullet will stabilize well in the gun. If you are going to be shooting 62gr or heavier, 1:8 or 1:7 is advised.
 
The 1:7 vs 1:9 question pretty much depends on what you want to do with the rifle (e.g. long range shooting vs. inexpensive plinking/range practice).

1:9 is fine with any .223/5.56mm loads up to 69gr in my experience. If you plan to do long-range shooting, the the excellent but expensive 75gr and 77gr loads really shine past 500 yards because of their higher ballistic coefficients, and those loads require a 1:7 barrel to stabilize them due to their extra-long bullets. However, if you mostly want to shoot 55gr to 62gr ammo, which is considerably less expensive, a 1:9 twist would be perfect and would still allow you to go as high as 69gr match for longer range shooting if you prefer.

1:7 will still shoot 55gr loads but you will theoretically get a little less barrel wear and possibly a little more velocity with 1:9, and 1:9 barrels also tend to be less expensive. 1:9 also gives you the option to shoot 40-50gr varmint loads that a 1:7 twist would probably overspin, though it doesn't sound like that's a consideration for you.
 
Thank you, that's a good explanation of the twist. I don't really ever see myself needing to shoot at 500 yards, but out to at least 100 would be helpful. It seems like the 1:9 would be fine for my needs as far as plinking and target shooting, but would it still be a viable option for hunting? Most likely I'd only hunt deer with this gun, I have plenty of .22s I could use if I chose small game like squirrels. Oh, and I looked it up, I can use any center fire rifle or handgun here, but the magazine cannot exceed 10 rounds.
 
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maddmagician said:
As for hunting, I live in Kentucky and you can use rifles and I do not think there is a magazine limit here.
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We are limited to 10 rounds while hunting.

(3) A person shall not use any of the following items to take a deer:
(a) Rimfire ammunition;
(b) A fully-automatic firearm;
(c) A firearm with a magazine capacity greater than ten (10) rounds;
(d) Full metal jacketed ammunition;
(e) Tracer bullet ammunition;
(f) A shotshell containing larger than number two (2) size shot;
(g) A broadhead smaller than seven-eighths (7/8) inch wide;
(h) A barbed broadhead;
(i) A crossbow without a working safety device;
(j) A chemically-treated arrow;
(k) An arrow with a chemical attachment;
(l) Multiple projectile ammunition; or
(m) Any weapon that is not consistent with the appropriate season established in Section 5 of this administrative regulation.
Click to expand...

Item F may be the single dumbest law in the state. :banghead:
 
chart....

A few years ago I read a gun magazine with a chart of what desirable features you want in a factory type M4/AR/M16 5.56mm.
I don't remember all the factors except to have a chrome lined barrel(a upgrade from the mid 1960s with the AR15s/M16a1s of SE Asia) & to have a lifetime warranty or service plan.
To me, ambi controls would be ideal(I'm left handed). Magpul, www.Magpul.com is considered to offer the "best" M4/AR 5.56mm magazines. They also have a impressive line of stocks or "furniture"(a UK military term being used often in the US gun industry).
Brownells; www.Brownells.com has a AR15/M4 series catalog for serious gun owners/armed professionals. They list all the parts, gear, slings, etc. :D
As for brands, Id look at S&W, SIG Sauer, Mossberg, Stag Arms, Rock River Arsenal, the HK 416, Colt, POF.

A SBR(short barrel rifle) with a "can" would be cool but I'm in no rush to buy one.
Check your area's gun laws too. Some places are very strict about ARs & semi auto rifles.
 
tuj said:
the efficacy of using .223 on deer is debatable.
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Dunno about that. I've killed a truckload of Kentucky whitetails with a 5.56/.223 over the last twenty years. None of them were willing to debate. ;)

In all seriousness though, the .223 is a more than adequate cartridge for the task with proper bullet selection and good riflery.
 
We are limited to 10 rounds while hunting.
Click to expand...
Thankfully MagPul and others offer 10 round AR-15 mags.

Can anyone tell me what makes the Colt worth ~$400 more than the S&W? Am I just paying for the name or is it really twice the gun?
Click to expand...
The Colt 6920 is as close as you'll get to a real M4 without NFA paperwork. It's darn near a USGI M4 carbine with a semi-auto fire control group (instead of burst capable), and a 16" bbl (instead of a 14.5" bbl). For a hard use defensive carbine it's a heck of a buy.

But it sounds like you want a recreational use AR, so the M&P-15 Sport is a great option for what you want. You don't get a dust cover of forward assist, but the utility of those features is debatable. I actually prefer S&W's black nitride bbl treatment over hard chrome lining because it's just as durable, but it doesn't reduce accuracy like chrome lining can because of variances in thickness. S&W uses 4140 steel rather the mil spec 4150 steel, but unless you're shooting shooting high volumes of ammo, rapid fire, on a regular basis it's not going to matter. The Sport doesn't have heat shielded hand guards, and you will feel bbl heat even with light shooting with those. So, I'd spend the $20 to get a set of CAR or M4 hand guards with the aluminum heat shield(s), or get a MagPul MOE handguard which has thicker plastic and a larger interior diameter.

The M&P-15 T with standard forward assist & dust cover, the 1:8 twist black nitride bbl, lightweight free float hand guard, and included MagPul MBUS sights may be the best all around out of the box rifle for another $300 over the Sport. Whether you want a free floated bbl with faster twist is something you'll have to decide.
 
You can never go wrong with a Colt LE6920. It may be a frog hair over your $1000 mark though but not by a lot.
 
In my opinion, since I'm not involved in a shooting war, buying a milspec AR is the next best thing to useless. I prefer stainless barrels and high quality triggers personally.
 
In my opinion, since I'm not involved in a shooting war, buying a milspec AR is the next best thing to useless. I prefer stainless barrels and high quality triggers personally.
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Hey, you can get that in mil spec rifle: Mk12 SPR, SDM-R, SAM-R. :evil:

Just playing the devil's advocate there. It depends on what one wants to do. If you enjoy three gun or run and gun type shooting and competition a close to mil spec M4 style carbine is a better choice, and is hardly useless. If you prefer busting varmints, shooting tiny groups, and other precision pursuits then a rifle with a longer stainless steel bbl and a nicer aftermarket trigger is a better choice.
 
ugaarguy said:
The Colt 6920 is as close as you'll get to a real M4 without NFA paperwork. It's darn near a USGI M4 carbine with a semi-auto fire control group (instead of burst capable), and a 16" bbl (instead of a 14.5" bbl). For a hard use defensive carbine it's a heck of a buy.

But it sounds like you want a recreational use AR, so the M&P-15 Sport is a great option for what you want. You don't get a dust cover of forward assist, but the utility of those features is debatable. I actually prefer S&W's black nitride bbl treatment over hard chrome lining because it's just as durable, but it doesn't reduce accuracy like chrome lining can because of variances in thickness. S&W uses 4140 steel rather the mil spec 4150 steel, but unless you're shooting shooting high volumes of ammo, rapid fire, on a regular basis it's not going to matter. The Sport doesn't have heat shielded hand guards, and you will feel bbl heat even with light shooting with those. So, I'd spend the $20 to get a set of CAR or M4 hand guards with the aluminum heat shield(s), or get a MagPul MOE handguard which has thicker plastic and a larger interior diameter.

The M&P-15 T with standard forward assist & dust cover, the 1:8 twist black nitride bbl, lightweight free float hand guard, and included MagPul MBUS sights may be the best all around out of the box rifle for another $300 over the Sport. Whether you want a free floated bbl with faster twist is something you'll have to decide.
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Pretty solid assessment. Couple things:

Magpul handguards also have metal heat shields in them. I'd maybe either add them, or look around for some good used mil-spec handguards for cheap. I've seen them (probably take off parts) at the LGS for $10 a set. If I needed them, I'd have bought them.

Also, one can almost exactly approximate a mil-spec M-4 (in size and handling) with a 14.5 inch barrel and a pinned/welded flash hider. It's maybe half an inch longer, but very close. Not sure that's necessary in the OP's case though.

Overall, I have to agree that for a pretty good recreational/defensive rifle at a good price, a guy would be hard-pressed to find a better choice than the M&P Sport.
 
A lot of people buying an AR for the first time will have it a month or two and decide they want to upgrade it. Some change hand guards, stocks, grips, etc. Years ago when buying my first AR, I spent a pretty penny on the rifle only to get used to it and want to change all of the parts listed above plus the sights and trigger assembly. Just food for thought, but it is something to consider when buying a rifle. I would check out as many options as possible to see what best suits you, then find the rifle you want that fits best.
 
CharlieDeltaJuilet said:
A lot of people buying an AR for the first time will have it a month or two and decide they want to upgrade it. Some change hand guards, stocks, grips, etc. Years ago when buying my first AR, I spent a pretty penny on the rifle only to get used to it and want to change all of the parts listed above plus the sights and trigger assembly. Just food for thought, but it is something to consider when buying a rifle. I would check out as many options as possible to see what best suits you, then find the rifle you want that fits best.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'd also say it's good to think it over and handle and fire as many AR's as you can before buying. Try to get a good idea of what you want before money changes hands.

For those who want to start working on it now, I'd suggest maybe buying a lower, either stripped or complete, and then building on that after you figure out what you want. Blemished lowers are available from Palmetto State Armory sometimes for $49, complete lowers with carbine buttstock can be had from them for about $150, or you can spend more and have the same thing from BCM for about $400. Just depends on what features matter to you, but when I owned a BCM, I felt it was a great purchase. Lots of other options available too.
 
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