First Time Reloading Part 3 - Case Resizing (Starting over from scratch)

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The goal is to adjust the die to set the case shoulder back just enough to let the cartridge chamber freely. Normally, this is envisioned to be a reduction in shoulder dimensions of about 0.001” to 0.002" from fired to sized shape. Exactly where you reach the desired die adjustment totally depends on the dimensions of the die vs. the dimensions of the chamber vs. the brass you use (brass spring back is a factor here). The weakness of this method is that you simply cannot know exactly how much your shoulder has been set back, and it is hard to be sure it was not another case dimension that needed reduction before your case chambered freely. You can try to assess this by measuring case diameter at the shoulder and in front of the case head (fired vs. sized) while you adjust your die. If the case diameters are reduced before you reach your ‘sweet spot’, you are probably ok. To be one hundred percent sure, you need to use a headspace gauge and actually measure the difference in head to shoulder dimension on a fired vs. a sized case. Now that said, anal agonizing over the above is an exercise in futility because once you have determined where the die needs to be set to allow the cartridge to chamber freely it is what it is, the firearm has told you in no uncertain terms what it will or will not accept!In the absence of custom fitted dies, adjustment to the die body is all we have for achieving optimum case sizing, especially when PFL sizing to match the dimensions of the chamber. Adjusting the die to touch the shell holder with the ram up is the starting point. Further adjustment is accomplished by screwing the die down either 1/4 or 1/2 turn, which is accomplished by lowering the ram and then giving the die the additional 1/4 turn or 1/2 turn. The additional turn increases the ability of the press, die and shell holder to overcome any spring in the press caused by the resistance of the case to be sized. The problem with the advice to make sizer adjustments in ‘small changes like 1/4 or 1/2 turn’ until they get the cases sized right, results in changes to the shoulders in steps from about 18 to nearly 36 thousands. Given that most bottleneck cartridges only have a minimum to maximum range of about 6 thousands for headspace; those so called 'small changes', when put into context, are massive! The amount of additional sizing equates to; 1/4 turn is equal to 0.0178”, 1/2 turn is equal to 0.0357”, and anything close to (or over) 0.035” is a work out for a press. A careful review of your reloading procedure will often bring to light bad habits that necessitate the additional 1/2 turn.

The thread pitch on all standard dies sets is 14 turns per inch. 1" = 1.000", 14 TPI = threads per inch, or 1000/14 = 0.0714" per full turn. 1/8 turn = about 0.009". 1000/14 = 71.428, so the exact answer is (71.4 thousandths per turn of the die), but for practical purposes use 72. An added bonus is that 72 is divisible by just about everything (2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 9, 12) so you can usually get within a couple of thousandths of the adjustment you need to make. All threads have pitch errors, let alone 'running' clearance between the male and female threads, so, depending on the particular die, there may only be 13.9 threads per inch, or 14.1. One complete revolution of the die is equal to 0.072”. Masking tape measures on average 0.08mm to 0.1mm in thickness. It is better to measure and remove the variables. In any event, you will only get ‘close’ to an exact measurement but if you only partially loosen the die lock ring enough to allow turning the die body, there will be little to no ‘slop’ in the threads. It is nearly as accurate as a micrometer die unless you loosen the lock ring completely and let the die threads slop around in the press threads.
Unless you are setting the shoulder back significantly below SAAMI minimum, there should be no danger in firing that round! The reason there is a range of allowable measurement is because each firearm is different and many are the re-loaders that fire form cases to fit chambers that are over SAAMI maximum chamber space. If you really want to get anal about this, do a chamber cast, or pounded impression of your chamber and size your cases based on the measurements from that process.
 
sirgilligan,

every commercially loaded round has a case that is fully sized to minimum specs. has to be to fit in every firearm made. there are very accurate commercial rounds (federal gold metal match ammo). so, don't sweat the full-length resizing.

consistent case length is important for a number of reasons (crimp, bullet tension). a cheap and easy way to make your reloads more consistent, too.

i'm ocd when it comes to reloading. just my way of doing things.

luck,

murf
 
Ahh SirGilligan. You and Potatohead would get along well...I too, have often succumbed to analysis paralysis!
 
Resized some 223 once fired brass and when it came out the distance from the middle of the shoulder to the case head was out of spec by about 2000th of an inch.

So today I set it up again and only turned the die 1/16th of a turn and the case came out in spec.
That might work on new or OF-brass of the same headstamp. But what happens over time, and/or with pickups that you get mixed into your supply line, is that some cases spring back after you size them. So unless you are going to measure every one, you might could use that couple mils of breathing room. This is why your die is set to 2 mils too short. That's about perfect for a sizing die.

When you back out your die to not touch the shellholder, there's another issue at play. The press stretches. How much it stretches depends on that piece of brass. How thick is the brass and how work hardened and how well lubed it is. So you will get more variation in shoulder length. If you screw the die all the way down, the press still stretches, but the sizing is set by the carefully predetermined length of the die. That removes a variable.
 
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Noob Take

Since this was for noobs, I dont feel bad putting this in here, since I are one.
Regardless of over thinking this or not, the information provided by everyone in this thread is interesting and educational (has been for me anyway).

I understand from previous threads that case head separation can occur over time, with brass that has been resized in a manner that creates excessive headspace. In this case, that would mean pushing the shoulder too far back towards the case head when resizing. That is what the OP seems to be concerned about. This extra headspace causes the case to grow excessively when the brass expands to fill the chamber when fired. This can create a thinned area or channel inside the brass above the case head and eventually cause head separation when fired. The brass has to go somewhere.

There was a excellent discussion about this previously on the forum, that I did my best to digest at the time. Since I'm typing this, I cant check to see if it is a sticky, but I hope so. At least it should be in the library of reloading wisdom. I'll check later, find it, and be properly embarrassed that I didn't know.

If you own the Hornady manual, I believe it has a section that addresses this to some degree but since I'm moving right now, I cant be sure. The book is in an undisclosed location in a box probably marked "Kitchenware" so I am unable to verify this.

This discussion has shown me that one can only get so close because of variances in the process and materials and some clearance is required for proper operation in a semi-automatic anyway. A few thousandths of an inch being appropriate and reasonable and would not likely be a cause of eventual head separation. With the small clearances described by the OP, one would be more likely to eventually encounter a case failure elsewhere, like the mouth splitting before the head would separate.

Of course, the brass should still be checked with the bent paper clip every once in a while, regardless of accurately the sizing measurements are executed :).

This is where I'm at with it, still being somewhat of a noob. Please correct any misconceptions/misinformation or coverups encountered.

[edit]
My embarrassment knows no bounds: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=734058

H1
 
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Things that I didn't do right:
I thought I had tightened the little brass lock (the one you tighten with an allen wrench) tight enough but when I took the die off it was loose and the big "depth" nut then moved. I will have to readjust it. How tight can you turn that lock?

I don't like the die locking rings that have the set-screws for locking the die nut.

I prefer the LEE die locking rings that have the rubber O-ring. Snug that down, and the die WILL NOT move.

Before I started using the LEE die locking rings , I had the set-screw types coming loose persistently.

You can buy the LEE die locking rings in three-packs.
A three-pack costs only four bucks.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/334374/lee-die-locking-ring-7-8-14-thread-package-of-3
 
The brass screws on threads don't tighten for crap. They need something in between, like a piece of lead shot or a piece of plastic etc. I have even used a spitwad before. Worked great. I like the clamp around type lock rings like Hornady, Forster etc.

The Lee rings with the o-ring work great for snugging down and leaving on a turret etc, but not so much for when you will be moving the die on and off of a press often.
 
The Lee rings with the o-ring work great for snugging down and leaving on a turret etc, but not so much for when you will be moving the die on and off of a press often.
That's a matter of preference. I prefer the Lee rings. When you get the knack for snugging them down, you can keep your settings well within any amount that matters. I turn the die in slow and steady using my finger-torque-gauge and kinda wait for it to slowly settle in at the right torque. But that's still a lot faster and easier than picking up and using a wrench. For dies I put in/out a lot, this is multiplied. This isn't even considering adjustments, and the Lee is WAY easier to make adjustments on.

A die working itself loose, OTOH, can cause a big disaster. Big, as in multiplied by hundreds of cases. I hate finishing a batch of brass and then finding a loose die. I have never had a Lee ring move from where it is set, and I have never used a wrench to tighten one.

As you noted, Lee rings are really perfect for setting and leaving in a turret or a quick change bushing, too.
 
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That's a matter of preference..........can keep your settings well within any amount that matters.
I guess you are right, it is a matter of preference, because I expect them to go back exactly where they were when I finished adjusting them. I'm a bit OCD. :)

And you are right, once snugged down, they are not prone to getting loose.
 
I agree the split rings are better than set screws in some ways. I think the ultimate would be a split ring with an O ring!

But a close second would be to take an ordinary Lee ring and drill and tap it for a set screw. Using a lead shot, of course, under the set screw.

One problem I have with the split ring and lock screw types is that you can't lock them in properly with the die snugged down. I find I have to back the nut off a little, and it's hard to keep the die and nut from moving in relation to one another. So it's like a guessing game of locking it first, THEN snugging the die down and measuring where you are, only to have to unlock the nut, again.

I wonder if there's a market for a lock ring with an O ring that only contacts between the die and the nut. To prevent movement while adjusting. This is what makes the LEE so easy to adjust. Then you lock the nut with a screw. But you still have to lock the die down with a wrench, so the exacting reloaders will get that micron repeatability they demand.
 
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I remember where someone here that did drill and tap some Lee rings for a set screw. Don't remember who.
 
Another solution for locking the nut might be to use two nuts, on the dies where you have enough thread. Oh... there I go. Now I have to go out and buy some die nuts to lock down my Lee dies.
 
Rings

All my RCBS and Lee dies got Hornady rings and I like them a lot. Any money I saved on the Lee dies, was probably spent on the Hornady rings :). I have to say that Lee was very clever coming up with the o-ring solution. Cheap and it works. I just like the Hornadys better.
 
Another solution for locking the nut might be to use two nuts, on the dies where you have enough thread. Oh... there I go. Now I have to go out and buy some die nuts to lock down my Lee dies.
Good idea, lock them on the die against each other. Might need to leave out one o ring, or reverse one ring. Interesting.
 
The allen screw that locks down your die adjustment is very easy to strip. What I do, and I think I read it in the RCBS instructions, or maybe in my Speer#10 years ago, is I put a sinlge #7-1/2 lead shot in the hole, then thread the allen nut back in. The lead will seat against the threads, locking it down nicely, without stripping it out.

As for the rest of your resizing operation, it all sounds fine to me. The only thing I can say is, I give you credit for using a lube pad and that gunky lube, I'm guessing RCBS lube. I use Dillon spray on lube, spray it on, or apply it with a Q tip as I do, let it dry for a few minutes, and resize. Hardly any mess to deal with, and it doesn't ruin your media like that lube pad gunk does.

GS
 
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