Lee carbide resizing die scratching

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Garys001

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Let me start out by saying I'm new to reloading.

I am reloading 38 special and while resizing the brass I noticed 6 or 7 scratches running along the length of the casing. I looked inside the die and I could clearly see scratches on the die.

So, I called Lee and had them send me a new resizing die. I get the new die, clean it very well and start to resize, and on the first casing I see one scratch along its length. I look inside the die and I can see a dull spot on the polished surface. I didn't see the scratch before.

What is wrong? One screwed up die I can see, but two?

Here is my step by step process:

1. Remove primer (Lee decapping die)
2. Clean brass (I use stainless steel media in soap and water). Brass looks brand new.
3. Resize using Lee carbide resizing die.

The casings were once fired (by me) and I did not trim the casings. And like I said, the brass looks brand new.

It's got to be me, right? I've only reloaded 300 Win Mag before and I only neck sized and had no issues.

Any help you guys could give would be greatly appreciated. I'm very frustrated.

Thanks,
Gary
 
Gary, stop and think. If the die is leaving a scratch in the brass it can not be from a scratch in the die. A scratch is a long indent in whatever materal or object one happens to be referring to. One scratch "indent" can not make another scratch "indent".

Are you resizing nickle plated cases? If so you might have a flake of nickle galled into the inside surface of the die.
 
Tiny bit of trash/grit on the brass or on the die. A bit of brass stuck on the die from galling.

Chuck a bore mop in a drill, put some polishing compound on it and run it in the die to clean it up. You can't hurt the carbide with it, so no worries. Clean well with solvent and a clean rag.
 
jiwit, no they are not nickle plated. I can see a dull spot in the die and the scratches in the brass are right where the dull spot is.

Perhaps that dull spot is not a scratch but dirt or something that I need to more aggressively clean? I did clean it with degreaser, but didn't go crazy trying to rub it off.

Walk, I just saw your reply and that's exactly what I'm going to try to do.
 
It's normal to notice some sizing marks on cases, bright marks where the brass is sized is normal (typically these start faint, and get more noticeable towards the base of the case). You should not, however, have any scratches that you can "feel", however (with a feeler tool, thumbnail, etc). I wouldn't worry about the scratches from a functional standpoint unless they are very deep - in semi-autos, everything tends to mark up cases; magazine feed lips, feed ramps, extractors, etc. Since you're shooting 38 special I'd assume this is in a revolver, which has fully supported chambers. No big deal.

Polishing the die should work some of this out, if it's carbide chances are you don't have much of anything that's going to hurt the surface. A dremel set on slow speed with an extension, a buffing head, and some polishing compound should do the trick nicely. :)

Also, occasionally a die will collect debris and you'll notice scratching. I keep a box of q-tips handy and clean the inside of my dies at the start of each session. This is especially important on rifles and other bottlenecked cartridges, where you have to lube the cases. Lube builds up, and attracts dirt like a magnet.
 
You are cleaning your cases so squeaky clean they are galling inside the die from lack of dirt or case lube easing the friction.

That leaves tiny specs of brass firmly welded to the inside of the die, and every case after that will get a scratch on it.

Three things you can do.
1. Use a slotted 1/4" dowel rod and a flap of 400 grit black emery paper in a drill and polish the die to get all the brass out of it.
You cannot harm the carbide insert by polishing it this way.

2. Lube the squeaky clean cases with a light spritz of One-Shot case lube or other spray case lube before sizing.
Every case doesn't have to be lubed, so just dump them in a mixing bowl, coffee can, big zip-lock bag, etc. and give them a light spray. Then hand stir them around until most of them have a little case lube on them.

3. Or, size them first, before you clean them squeaky clean.
The dirt film and powder smoke will lube them enough to prevent galling.

Once you polish the die, and then do #2 or #3, no more galling will occur and your problem is solved.

rc
 
rcmodel is right, the brass is just too squeaky clean. I have run into that before. Sizing takes more effort and cases can leave brass on the die. It was a "light bulb" moment for me.

I use polish in my media. It leaves a tiny film on the brass which prevents galling. It also helps protect the finish for a while.
 
I had the same problem with a Lee 38/357 carbide sizer. I didn't clean the brass yet I was still getting streaks. I called Lee and they told me to polish it with 400 grit emery paper and after I did, it worked fine till the streaks came back after sizing another 50 or so more. After polishing again, I tried with 357 mag brass, I immediately got streaks and ended up having to lube the cases just to prevent any streaks. Thing is, I've never had this problem before with either 380 auto, 9mm or 40 S&W and have done hundreds if not thounds through them without one problem...
 
Couple of things.

Some carbide dies are just made smoother & slicker then others.

.357 mag cases are much longer, and thicker in the tapered case web then 380, 9mm or 40 S&W cases.
So, they are getting run through the carbide sizing ring about twice as far & fast, (more friction) while applying more pressure then with the shorter auto pistol cases.

I use a light shot of case lube on every caliber handgun case I reload.
All the way from .32 ACP to .44 Mag all get case lube.
I can't even remember the last time I had to polish brass galling out of a sizing die.

rc
 
I've giver all my pistol brass a shot of spray lube for years also, I did it because anything that makes it easier is easier of my old bones. Arthur in the joints is not a friend at all. My side benifit was a lack of galling problems except one time I had the problem with 357 mag, nickle plated brass.
 
I use a light shot of case lube on every caliber handgun case I reload.
All the way from .32 ACP to .44 Mag all get case lube.
I can't even remember the last time I had to polish brass galling out of a sizing die.
Click to expand...

And there you go. If you go back through this thread, everyone who's having issues is not using lube. Everyone (including myself) who's not having issues is using lube.

There seems to be a significant correlation there.
 
"If you have to use lube what's the point in the carbide?"

Well, as a practical thing, it's difficult to impossible to buy anything else these days!

When carbide handgun sizers came into the market they were lauded as "no need to lube." That was true enough at the time but the time was before tumbling/polishing became such a fad. The "smoke" on cases, and even a little tarnish, served to reduce galling but now most everyone is tumblin' cases squeeky clean so galling occurs...sometimes QUICKLY! So, understanding the problem and lubing a little is the solution. Or even better, revert to just wiping cases off and re-using them as they are.
 
And even tumbling is less likely to cause galling due to the slightly waxey polish residue left on the cases.

But the OP stated he is cleaning his with stainless steel media in soap and water!
That is not going to leave anything at all to prevent galling, unless he lubes them again.

Or sizes before the scouring in soap & water that removes all traces of everything that might have acted as a lube against the carbide.

rc
 
Excellent guys, thank you very much! It all makes sense now. You guys just saved me a lot of headache.

I will polish the die with 400 grit emery paper and lube the cases from now on. I plan on throwing the cases in a large zip lock bag, do a quick spray and shake it up.

Thanks,
Gary
 
Or ditch the SS/soap&water for corn cob & polish. As said above, the polish residue is just enough lube.

There are different "grades" of tungsten carbide. Maybe some are harder than others? Redding uses Titanium carbide, and Hornady uses Titanium Nitride. I use Hornady's with no problems, but then I've also not had any problems with Lee carbide either. Then again, I tumble in corn cob & polish...

Andy
 
Hornady's is all steel with a nitride coating. The others have carbide inserts.

Redding claims their carbide is slicker, and I would say it is by just a little bit, but not enough to jump up and down about.
 
....... and, the next time your dies need a touch of smoothing out, use the same wood dowel with some 0000 steel wool wrapped around it, will do the same thing as the grit paper, only smoother.
 
Hey guys, it worked like a charm. I polished the carbide with 400 grit emery cloth and lubed the casings. Re-sized 100 casings and everything went smoothly.

I'm going to stick with the stainless steel and water. I really like how clean the casings get, especially the primer pockets. Plus, I shoot black powder cartridges and it really cleans that mess up really well.

The lubing of the casings literally took 2 minutes. Large zip lock bag, a couple of sprays of Hornady's One Lube and shake the brass around, done.

Again, thanks for the help.
Gary
 
Carbide is carbide, there are different grades but that leans more toward the machining characteristics and shock resistances of the carbide not the hardness. All the titanium nitride and other "special" carbides are just carbide with a coating on it. The coatings were originally made for cutting tools and forming dies using tool steels to make them perform like carbide with out the high cost of carbide. I think a high quality polish on the carbide die insert would help more then a coating but then again polishing takes time, especially on carbide and time is money.
 
It is my opinion that Hornady uses a TIN (titanium nitride) flash coating on regular steel dies.

I don't think there is any carbide in there, as I wore the TIN coating of one Hornady sizing die years ago and gave up on them.

rc
 
Hornady TiN sizing dies, like other brands' carbide dies for straight wall pistol cartridges, have a sizing ring, but it is made of steel with a TiN coating/treatment. Carbide can be polished to a higher degree, which reduces the coefficient of friction compared to steel. TiN also reduces the coefficient of friction (in fact moreso than carbide without it).

Ordinary steel dies are reamed to the shape of the cartridge, and the entire inner surface of the die is in contact with the cartridge case. This causes much more friction than the small ring of carbide or TiN coated steel.

Andy
 
Garys001: That will work. I have use a water soluable wax (Lee's) mixed with about 20 to 1 Alcohol to Lee's case lube and a plant mister. Works well. For straight wall pistol, car wax in the media also works well to lube them

"If you have to use lube what's the point in the carbide?"

Carbide is extremely resistant to heat compared to steel. Check your power saw blade tips. Forcing metal into a shape generates plenty of localized heat, and carbide won't change shape easily.

It should also be noted that abrasive media (sandpaper) CAN shape the surface of carbide. I have sharpened C-2 and C-3 carbide router bits easily with 200-400 grit 'auto'/wet-dry' sandpaper. Hard steel is sharper than carbide, but the carbide edge won't lose material or change shape (dull) as easily.
 
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