First time reloading TOTAL FAIL!

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CSestp

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Well I thought I had gotten some good reloads for my first time around. Go to load my round into my M1A. And the bullet separated from the case. Spilling powder all over the place. This happened with 2 different rounds. So what have I done wrong here?

By the way the OAL was 2.785 on one and 2.795 on the other.
 
So it came apart when extracted or when loaded? Sounds like your neck tension is not high enough and or the OAL is too long for your chamber.
 
I will compare my OAL with other rounds that have worked, but it seems that my neck tension is the culprit. Anyway to check this?
 
Did you not run the case through a resizing die, or did you run it through the wrong die?


Sizing dies *should* form the case so that neck tension is adequate when a bullet is seated.


To "check" neck tension, try pushing in a bullet. You shouldn't be able to by hand, and it should be very tough to do so with any tools.


For a round to separate when chambering would indicate practically no neck tension what so ever.
 
I should say that some of the rounds chambered fine. My first round the shortest of the bunch is one that the bullet came out. After that I tried to chamber another round to see if it would happen again. It didn't but because of the first round it made me weary. Went to the longer set. First round chambered fine second did the same thing. After that I called the whole thing off.
 
Measure the bullet and make sure it's the correct diameter.


Just going to throw this out there as an experience, but I *did* find a 9mm bullet that was too small once. I think out of a few thousand, it's the only one I've ever come across, but it slipped right into a case, leading me to believe that the case hadn't been sized. So I sized it again, and again, the bullet dropped right in. I checked it with a mic, and it was a few thousands undersized. Nothing to do about it, other than add it to the scrap bin...
 
Bullet comes out when chambering, no neck tension. If when extracting, it is getting stuck in rifling. Look for marks on the bullet. What kind of crimp. if any, make of dies? Mike the bullets. Pull the plug from the resizer and size a shell. Measure OD and neck thickness. Calculate ID. Mike expander plug OD. ID MUST be smaller than OD and bullet size. If using a Lee neck die, get something else.
 
What he said.

Your expander plug needs to be at least .002" smaller then the bullet dia.

SO measure it and see if it measures .306" or slightly less.

If you have proper neck tension for a semi-auto rifle, there is no possible way you should be able to pull the bullet without using a bullet puller. Even with no crimp.

rc
 
Righty oh, will do this evening when I get home. Thanks will try to keep this post alive with updates.
 
It does not sound as if you are experienced in reloading for M1a’s. In my opinion the beginning of the process requires two critical tools: 1) A cartridge headspace gage, and 2) a small base die

This is a case gage:
ReducedWilsongagemeasuringnew308bra.jpg

This is how it works:
CartridgeHeadspacegagelinedrawing.jpg

There is an assumption in this process, that the rifle is headspaced correctly.

Consumables in this process include the least sensitive primers you can buy. Currently there are only two “mil spec” primers on the market: CCI #34’s and the Tula7.62 primers. I would avoid all primers that claim to be “more sensitive”. Another consumable might be a primer pocket reamer. The cutting teeth wear on these things.

Steps

1. Full length size case with a small base die
2. Size case to cartridge headspace gage minimum.
3. Trim case
4. Ream primer pocket to depth
5. Seat primer below case head, inspect each and every primer to verify depth.

Slamfires occur because the primer was hit by a firing pin with sufficient energy to ignite the primer. This mechanism has a free floating firing pin. The probability of slamfires is never zero. If you look at George Frost’s book “Making Ammunition” you will see that even at the lowest, “No fire” primer test threshold, if 3 in ten million are allowed to fire, the lot is considered acceptable.

Steps 1, 2, 3 are simply there to ensure that if you have a slamfire, the bolt lugs are engaged. If the cartridge is too long, or too fat, bolt closure is delayed as the action swages the case into the chamber.

Step 4 and 5 reduces the possibility of a high primer.

Under no circumstances does anyone want an out of battery slamfire.

Small base sizing is best conducted with a good case lube such as RCBS water soluble or Imperial sizing wax. Spray on lubes will stick the case in the die.

Crimping is un necessary and will cause more problems than it solves.

Use powders in the IMR 4895 burn rate, such as AA2495/H4895 or IMR 4895. Don’t use powders faster than IMR 3031 or slower than IMR 4064.

I found AA2520, a ball powder, left a lot more residue in the gas system and I cannot prove that the better metering means anything on target. I don’t care for ball powders, stick powders are the best in this mechanism.
 
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A couple of things to check out.

Make sure your resizing die is adjusted to at least make contact with the shell holder with the ram fully extended. It should produce a light amount of resistence, pop over.

Check that the expander plug is small enough, but I doubt that's the culprit.

Give us a bit mroe information also please. What bullet make, weight, and type are you using? Your OAL doesn't sound correct, in fact it seems excessively long.

Are you belling the case mouths? If so don't!

Are you crimping the mouths? If so try seating without crimping. More problems have been created with neck tension by those not familiar with crimping bottle neck cartridges, than has ever been solved.

I would guess a light neck tension issue, likely due to improper resizing die adjustment along with bullets jamming into the lands is my best guess.

I do realize that expander plugs do occasionally get made too large form time to time, but I've yet to encounter this in decades of reloading. So being that the OP is brand new to reloading, and the problem is with a bottle neck case, I feel resizing die adjustment and, or, improper OAL are the most likely culprits.
GS
 
I'm confused. How does a bullet fall out of the case while chambering? Setback, ok. But falling out?

During extraction, I can see the bullet falling out. And being left stuck in the barrel. I didn't hear any mention of a cleaning rod coming into play. And if it did, I think the solution of a shorter OAL would have been obvious.

This is quite mysterious.
 
Gloob I was just watching waiting on a answer to the same question. I don't like to jump in with a answer without yet knowing the question. My guess is pull down bullets seated to long but I don't have enough info to do more then a random guess.
 
Sounds like the OP was running rounds thru the rifle to test function with varying OALs.
Keep in mind that all cases are not the same thickness at the neck this is the reason I sort by headstamp. If you are using mixed brass or mixing once fired with cases that have been shot an unknown number of times [may need annealing] all kinds of weird things can and will happen.
Just taking a stab at the problem without all the evidence available so I could be way off.
Please give us more to work with.
T
 
Exactly what die set are you using? It makes a big difference if you're using a standard full length die vs a bushing die vs a collet die vs ...
 
OP said:
OAL was 2.785 on one and 2.795
later response said:
Your OAL doesn't sound correct,...

Actually, the OAL sounds fine (my issue Lake City M118s are 2.825, and handloads w/ both 168/175 SMks are 2.800+), but it depends on bullet ogive/shape

What bullet make, weight, and type are you using?
Key question as yet unanswered. Therein may lie the issue if (as I suspect) the bullet is being jammed tight into the lands, and then pulled from the case upon hand cycling.
 
If the neck tension is as it should be, I do not beleive a jammed bullet could be pulled from the case during manual extraction.

It should take well over 50 pounds of pressure to pull or move the bullet in the case.

rc
 
RC has a good point. I've purposely made up dummy rounds with the bullet way too far out. Never had one stick after running it into the chamber and up in the lands.
 
Depending on the possibility of multiple contributing factors that would reduce neck tension, and the possibility that the OP may be using some serious force to close and open the action, bullets can be dislodged upon extraction. But as RC stated, it takes an awful lot of force to dislodge a bullet that is getting normal neck tension, which I agree would be at least 50 lbs. or more.

Still need mroe information from the OP to try and help him diagnose and fix the issue.
GS
 
Having just tried it downstairs with a the longest-possible OAL I could fit through the magazine well (2.915") and the bluntest reasonable bullet (Sie150gSP), I cannot disagree w/ your conclusion.

But some combination of circumstances is still pulling the OP's bullets out of his cases upon manual extraction.
 
I have pulled the 147gn pulldowns out by jamming them into the lande. They are a little undersized from where they were crimped I assume.
 
If you have proper neck tension for a semi-auto rifle, there is no possible way you should be able to pull the bullet without using a bullet puller. Even with no crimp.
Even with a puller it should take several good wacks. I'll + 1 the case gauge suggestion.
 
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