Fitting parts on remington Again

[jnewton2]

I ordered the parts for my famous cooked pietta. They gave me parts for a colt instead so I'm sending those back. I was looking at my old post and I realized that the bolt of the gun had worn the cam on the hammer so much that the cam wasn't big enough to rotate the bolt all the way down. I wish I knew how to do pictures and I had some of the gun downloaded. My question was how do I keep this from happening again on that far off beautiful day when I get the parts? Thank you for any help.

 

[denster]

The cam on your hammer is not worn down. It is supposed to have that bevel to allow the bolt to reset as the hamer falls. The leg of the bolt only rides on the top edge of the cam.

 

[jnewton2]

Actually it is worn down. The leg of the bolt has worn a groove in the cam at it's [the cam's] base. The cam doesn't rotate the bolt all the way down. The bolt's leg doesn't ride on top of the cam but rather between the cam and the hammer in the groove it has worn. This was the cause of my timing problem,I think. I see that bevel though. Thank you.

 

[denster]

I think it might be useful to study how the parts inside the revolver interact it appears you are somewhat unclear on that.

 

[jnewton2]

How am I unclear? I may well be but tell me what about that needs more explaining and I'll try to make it clearer.

 

[denster]

OK! Where is this groove you say the bolt has worn in the cam. A picture would be helpful. Understand that on the cocking cycle the the outer perifery of the cam contacts the back of the bolt leg just above the arc cutout and rides up that flat which pivots the bolt out of the way until it runs out of leg to ride on and the bolt drops and the leg is now below the cam. On firing the bevel on the cam pushes that same leg inward as it decends until the cam goes into that arc cutout at full down and is ready for the next cycle.
The cam is much harder than the bolt as the bolt is the wear part. So for the bolt to wear a groove in the cam is pretty much unlikely.

 

[BHP FAN]

in fitting new parts, it's usefull to do one at a time. this may seem like a lot of extra work [haveing to completely disassemble and reassemble each time] but you will actually save time as you'll know which parts drop in, and which you need to use the original part as a template to fit the new ones. do NOT mix your new parts pile up with your old parts pile, or you'll have to mix and match until you find a combo that works, all the while trying to fit each part to a new combination. that'll drive you nuts.

 

[mykeal]

I understood the OP's explanation fairly well.

Yes, the cam is very rarely worn by the bolt leg, BUT it can happen and has happened. Pietta, and other Italian manufacturers like ASM and ASP, went through a period about 10 years ago in which some internal parts were either poorly hardened or not hardened at all; hammers were not excepted from that plague. I've seen one (admittedly only one) hammer with a worn cam upper surface (by which I mean the side of the cam at the highest point on the bevel, the surface where the bolt leg rides in normal operation, in case 'upper surface' isn't clear). In this case the surface was flattened rather than grooved, but I imagine it's not too much different than the OP's problem.

Soft hammer + hardened bolt = grooved or flattened hammer cam. It's unlikely, but possible.

 

[denster]

Mykeal. Good point, as usual, though I was making my comments with regard to the OP original post about his cooked Pietta being a new gun.
It would be really useful to see a photo.

 

[mykeal]

I understand...I assumed it wasn't a new gun, which may be totally off base. Pictures would be most useful.

 

[jnewton2]

I don't have a photo of the gun on the computor or I would figure out how to post it. If someone could tell me what post or part of the site I could find that on that would be great. However , maybe we can get along without one. Mykeal is correct in his location for my problem. Since you guys say this is a very rare problem I guess I don't have to worry about it whenever my extra parts arrive.
Perhaps this was brought on by cooking the gun in which case as long as I don't decide I want pietta pie again I should be alright. Thanks alot everybody.

 

[SAA]

My question was how do I keep this from happening again on that far off beautiful day when I get the parts?

The answer to your question is that this problem should not resurface once you install newer, harder Pietta parts. And for goodness sake hurry up and have a neighbor, friend or someone else help you post a photo so denster can see what you've already described several times!

I looked back at all your posts and could not find where you said you bought this gun brand new. Was it new when you got it, or did you buy it used? Look for a small rectangle on the frame somewhere that has two letters in it. What are those two letters?

 

[jnewton2]

It was a new gun when I got it. Those 2 letters are C and F. Just wondering,what do those 2 letters mean?

 

[junkman_01]

CF=2010 manufacture

 

[mykeal]

If this is truly a 2010 gun (and I have no reason to think it isn't), and the bolt leg has worn a groove in the top of the hammer cam (my interpretation of the description), then this is one very, very unusual situation. The hammer must have escaped hardening at the factory (I highly doubt the oven experience damaged it), and since about 2000, this is the only time I'm aware of that's happened. I guess there's a first time for everything. jnewton2, you have a very unusual gun.

There are some good threads on how to post pictures in the Technical Support thread under Site Maintenance on this forum. Just click on The High Road logo at the very top of the page and scroll down to Site Maintenance.

 

[Noz]

Flying blind but it sounds like the bolt leg is broken and riding on the hammer rather than the cam?

 

[denster]

OK since the OP can't post photos and I'm irritating SAA I'll post some photos.
Photo one is how the bolt and hammer cam are orientated with the hammer at full down. Photo two is how they are orientated just prior to the cam releasing the bolt. Note the surface of the cam that is interacting with the bolt leg. I'll make another post with two nore photos showing that surface. If that is where the grove is. Then it can effect timing. The bolt will be late lowering and release early.

 

[denster]

OK these two photos the pencil lead is pointing to or resting on the surface of the cam that contacts the leg of the bolt when cocking.
SAA the reason pictures are important is that I've had folks mistake the reset bevel on the cam for wear. As Mykeal so aptly pointed out a grove worn on the perifery of the cam would be very unusual.
I knew this was a new gun from PMs with the OP on his cooked Pietta post.

jnewton2. What specifically is your timing issue? Also is the groove you spoke of in the area the pencil is pointing to?

 

[junkman_01]

Maybe the cam just needs to be pressed back into it's hole in the hammer?

 

[TheRodDoc]

I think he explained the wear pretty well.

http://www.theroddoctor1.com/colthammer.html

 

[SAA]

Hey, denster, at least someone has started posting pictures. I didn't think about reverse posting like that so he could see it and say yea or nay. Pretty smart. I do think, though, that he described it well enough a few times already. I hope he figures out a way to post photos too.

Junkman, that's what I was wondering too, but I think the cams on the Piettas are cast with the hammer.

 

[Mizar]

On two 1858 Piettas - CF date code (2010) that I observed the cam is pressed in the hammer, not cast with it. Maybe sometime in 2010 they changed the hammer/cam design again.

Boris

 

[SAA]

jnewton2, denster was kind enough to post pictures to help. Is that the area that has the wear?

 

[jnewton2]

YES,YES,YES That's it. That is right where my groove is. That was a good idea posting those pictures Denster. Thanks everyone.