Flashlight on home defense guns

[jiminhobesound]

A recent post discusses shotguns/carbines as a HD gun for a petite wife. During that thread the subject of a flashlight on the gun makes me ask of the good and bad of having a flashlight on your HD gun. I would not employ a flashlight because it seems to me that it makes you an easy target. If you are in your home you should know the layout, doorways, hallways and room layouts. With than knowledge you should also be able to determine the amount of light coming into the various areas of your home. Do not turn on an aim point for the intruder.

 

[Shadow 7D]

It takes more training to learn to use the lights, and it does make sense to have a light, it's a question of what you think you are doing with it, Now the stupidest thing you can do with a light is to walk around with it on in the dark. The idea in night fighting is to get the other guy to 'silhouette' themselves, now a flashlight turns you into a giant white spot saying "LOOK AT ME"

But if used for identification, in other words, flashed momentarily (and a trained person will tell you to MOVE if the guy you just flashed wasn't friendly (and you should be doing the other two things too- Shoot, Move, and Communicate)

You have a second to fire as they are blinded, and if you miss they are seeing stars where you WERE and lost night vision-but then you did too.

It's a tool, and you need the training in how to use it, otherwise you might as well just turn on the house lights, ---- which isn't a bad idea BTW.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I agree with you 100%. However, some guys just like to decorate their guns up like Xmas trees regardless if the "accessory" is needed or not...Just take a look at some of the AR pics posted on the 'net.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I would not employ a flashlight because it seems to me that it makes you an easy target.

Uhh, you're not supposed to leave it turned on. It's just to verify that the person you are about to shoot is a bad guy and not your drunk brother-in-law.

 

[straybullet]

I agree with Shadow, with a quick flash you can identify, disorient and fire. Think about how 150+ lumens would blind an armed intruder. As far as walking around with it on while looking for said intruder that is a far different matter.

 

[ceetee]

I've read time and time again about how a bad guy will use your flashlight as an aiming point - he'll just shoot into it and be assured of being able to hit you. People that say that must be zip-tying old Mini-mag lights to the front of their pistols. Any modern weapon light worth it's salt will throw more than enough light to temporarily blind any person trying to look directly into it. I have a C4 version of the TLR-1 light on my pistol and I can tell you that it's not just blinding to look into, it's actually painful. Sure, if I use it as a regular flashlight and telegraph my movements to someone up ahead of me, he may be able to get the drop on me. But as long as I use somewhat decent light discipline, I'll be able to move through my house using only ambient light, and still have the brightness of the TLR-1 to identify my target, and shoot at it if need be. And as has already been mentioned - it would be hell to shoot at someone you thought was a threat, only to find out it was your child up for a drink in the middle of the night.

 

[hso]

Shoot your kid/wife because you couldn't identify your target and you may decide too late that the disadvantage of having a light is outweighed by being able to see what you're shooting.

 

[txhoghunter]

I like the strobe feature that is on some weapons lights. It allows you to identify what you are aiming at, and it disorients the target at the same time.

But shadow has it nailed. Just as with every other piece of your home defense set up, you need training with how to properly utilize a light.

 

[AlexanderA]

Lights mounted on guns scream "mall ninja!" to me. The bad guy, if armed, is going to be firing right at the light. Lights have a place, but they should be used off the weapon (like at arm's length away from the body).

 

[Kendal Black]

Think of it as a Rule Four switch.

 

[Six]

If you have a light, you can opt to not use it.
If you don't have a light, you don't have a choice.

Not that anyone will change their opinion on the matter.

 

[BBroadside]

What made the decision for me to not bother with a flashlight mounted on a handgun was the realization that I'd be pointing the weapon at someone I had yet to identify. Sorry, no way am I going to break one of the rules, certainly not as a standard and often obligatory part of defending my home.

Then I read about the flashlights designed for "syringe grip" (the SureFire G3Z), and the techniques designed to make use of that (Rogers), and the other techniques ... suffice to say that people have already noted the disadvantages of separate-gun-and-flashlight and they've been dealt with.

(This is to say nothing of a shotgun, which pretty much needs an on-gun light, I think. Haven't worked out a solution for my Remington but there are several options.)

 

[8654Maine]

There is no doubt a weapon mounted light takes training.

I'm used to it. I've had it on my CQ weapons.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

First, you need to be able to identify your target and see its hands. So you need a light with your firearm, especially given how often incidents occur in low light.

If you have a long gun, you need the light on the gun because both your hands are already occupied - and even on a handgun, it is much easier to operate a pistol mounted light than a separate flashlight.

Any relatively decent light has enough spill that you can identify targets with a weapon mounted light without pointing the weapon directly at the target. However, in my own house, in a situation where I felt I needed a gun, I'd much rather risk breaking one of the four rules in order to identify my target vice not having a light at all.

At the end of the day, you need training to run a light effectively. Much like a gun, just because you have the light doesn't mean you have to use it. It just means the option is there when you do need it.

 

[Al Thompson]

Lights have a place, but they should be used off the weapon (like at arm's length away from the body).

No, not really. I can see this with a handgun, but long arms require a light. See Bartholomew's post for details.

One other thing folks miss - we are not talking about a five dollar Ray-O-Vac from the dime store. One of the Surefire G2s will do what you want at a decent price point.

http://www.opticsplanet.net/surefire-g2-nitrolon-flashlights.html

 

[Loosedhorse]

I guess that's +2 then for long gun lights. I have a light on a HD pistol--I consider that a "back-up", in case the one in my other hand goes dark, or in case the other hand is unavilable. But a light on a HD long gun is a necessity, IMHO. What's that we say about guns? Better have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. Same for gun-mounted lights.

Uhh, you're not supposed to leave it turned on.

Clint Smith has said, "Most people think a broken flashlight is one that won't go on; I think it's one that won't go off."

 

[Big Bad Bob]

I would think that primary first step in neutralizing a target in home defense is to, 1. Identify the threat.

Having a flashlight, like a surefire with pressure switch mounted is a quick way to identify your target, and as someone else mentioned a powerful enough light (150+ lumens) will disorient the threat allowing ample time to acquire your target and neutralize the threat. And with the pressure switch you don't have the light switched on full time. Ive used them in the Army and they work effectively.

That is unless you are the home defense ninja, who blends into the walls using your natural cloaking ability, slowing your heart and then surprising the living crap out of the intruder with your super ninja stealth skills. JK JK

All kidding aside having a light for the practical purpose of identification doesn't make you a geardo is just makes you smart.

 

[mbt2001]

Honestly, this is defensive shooting, not a night raid into bin Ladin's compound. It is important to see what you are doing, so flashlight training or weapons lights are a good idea. The thought that it "gives away your position" in a home defense scenario doesn't have much weight. Ostensibly the bad guys 1.) KNOW you are home and 2.) KNOW approx. where you are in any event, where the bedrooms are etc.

Clearing a house with a light is a lot different than setting up behind your mattress for cover with your weapons light on the door to verify the target while police are en route.

 

[Girodin]

I would not employ a flashlight because it seems to me that it makes you an easy target. If you are in your home you should know the layout, doorways, hallways and room layouts. With than knowledge you should also be able to determine the amount of light coming into the various areas of your home. Do not turn on an aim point for the intruder.

Not trying to be rude, but you have zero training in the how, when or why of using a light, do you?

A light is IMHO a need for most folks. You cannot shoot what you cannot positively identify. That said, just like with the gun itself, a light is a piece of equipment one should learn to use properly.

As to the bullet magnet theory, this presumes an intruder who is not only armed with firearm, but one who is creeping through the home with firearm out and ready to shoot. It also assumes the instinctive reaction to a bright light in the face would be to instantly fire at it. I won't say this is impossible but in terms of civilian HD it is surely the extreme outlier case. Much much much more probable (depending on living conditions) is the potential to misidentify a shadowy figure.

What you're not up on you're down on. It would behoove folks prior to criticizing to actually learn about what they are commenting on.

 

[Cards81fan]

One other thing folks miss - we are not talking about a five dollar Ray-O-Vac from the dime store. One of the Surefire G2s will do what you want at a decent price point.

http://www.opticsplanet.net/surefire-g2-nitrolon-flashlights.html

+1 to this. One needs a decent implement for this to work correctly. At a minimum, if you already have a Mini-mag 2-AA light (many of us do), just add a Terralux 140 lumen LED conversion and tail cap switch for under 30 dollars.

If starting from scratch, try any of the Surefire, Streamlight, or Fenix. There is a company out called EDI-T that has some really nice looking 250 lumen models out that run from $25-$60.

The Streamlight TLR-1 and TLR-3 are also great weapon-mounted lights that are reasonably priced (< $100).

Just throwing out some options for us all. Personally, I have a TLR-1 for my XD at home and a LED-upgraded Mini Mag in my briefcase on the go.

 

[Onward Allusion]

This subject comes up once a month or so, and while I definitely have my own opinions on it I would like to know the thoughts of credentialed professionals (i.e. LEO, security folks, and those with hands-on experience clearing facilities whether it's formal training or real-life) on the subject.

 

[Girodin]

I'd submit that clearing structures in concert with a group of other people is a different task than HD.

 

[Al Thompson]

OA, I probably don't meet your criteria, though as a corporate security guy, I've cleared a fair share of buildings and jacked up homeless folks and drunks trespassing.

Any decent tail capped light over 60 lumens is almost impossible to stare into. I have popped many folks in the eyes with a G2. As soon as I could determine that their hands and waist line was clear, I could re-direct the light.

Every single time, they either turned their heads quickly away or brought their hands up to cover their eyes (or both).

Took about 2 seconds to check them out. Worked every time.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

Lights have a place, but they should be used off the weapon

If you have your handgun in one hand and flashlight in the other how do you open doorknobs and keep both tools at the ready?

 

[Old krow]

If you have your handgun in one hand and flashlight in the other how do you open doorknobs and keep both tools at the ready?

If you lived by yourself or with a spouse and nobody to occupy another room would there be a need to? That goes back to that ole "clear your own house" argument. On the other hand, if I had nobody to occupy another room I wouldn't worry breaking rule #4 with children. I guess the answer is; flashlights are better than kids.

On a serious note, I do not see how to deploy a long arm in low light conditions safely without being able to identify my target. That means the light has to be mounted to the gun for the most part. I think that handguns could work either way.