Flashlight on home defense guns

[Rexster]

One of the few advantages you have is the element of surprise. Why throw that away by announcing your position or approach with a flashlight? It makes no sense at all to me.

A light is NOT the way I "announce" MY presence. If I want to announce my presence, I do it audibly, whether or not there is a light on my weapon.

 

[kingcheese]

in home defense a flash light on the gun might also scare away the invader, but it does gie away your posistion, it adds a level of intimidation to you, and can potentional blind your target


its a bunch of maybes for one gurantee, you might be glad you had, but it will give away your posistion

 

[Jerk]

It comes to my mind, and I apologize if anyone covered this, the home invader could possibly have flashlight of some kind. In that case I wouldn't want to be the one "left in the dark".

 

[mortablunt]

What about a headlamp or some other light source that is mounted on your head instead of on your gun? Also, what about lower intensity red or green lights which won't burn out the eyes.

 

[Chindo18Z]

It comes to my mind, and I apologize if anyone covered this, the home invader could possibly have flashlight of some kind. In that case I wouldn't want to be the one "left in the dark".

Excellent point.



Common protocol for many good-guy entry teams today is:

1. IR and Night Vision Devices for outside

2. White tactical lights for inside

3. Turn on the interior lights as soon as possible after entry

Reversing that for the home defender:

1. Illuminate the threat with interior lights if at all possible, ideally with a master switch. If you can't...

2. Establish a defensive ambush where you are hidden in the dark and can use your weapon light to target any approaching threat.

3. IR? You probably don't have to worry about because you 1) don't own the equipment and 2) usually have no legal standing to be prosecuting the fight outside of your home (although there may be exceptions).

Have a mounted weapon light.
Have a hand held light.
As long as you have power, have a plan to use needed light switches.

 

[JustinJ]

I'm finding it hard to see the advantage of a strobe. All of my good lights have that feature, but I can't see how it's useful. Any sense of disorientation felt by an intruder is going to affect you just as much.

Not at all. Its an easy thing to verify if you don't mind being blinding temporarily.

My plan, in case of intruder, is leave lights off and then point at area where i hear screaming, chewing and growling and then light it up.

 

[allaroundhunter]

I'm finding it hard to see the advantage of a strobe. All of my good lights have that feature, but I can't see how it's useful. Any sense of disorientation felt by an intruder is going to affect you just as much.

False. I have a TLR-1s on my M&P9. With the strobe activated in complete darkness it hardly affects me, however, if you are on the receiving end it will be a much different story. It is hard to believe that your flashlights have that feature and you still make that statement...

 

[conw]

A WML (weapon-mounted light) should, IMO, not be used for searching, but more for maintaining an advantage while firing upon, and preparing to fire upon, the target.

A handheld light of appropriate brightness and spot/flood/spill for the task, used properly (keeping it moving, keeping it away from your head, and using it to "take a snapshot" while you move out of the way) is much better for searching and "clearing."

You can use a WML for a double-check of the ID of the person you are muzzle masking, but I don't believe it should be thought of as being specifically for that role.

Me, I like a handheld with a lanyard, and a Glock with a WML/laser combo + tritium front and rear sight (one dot rear). I will take my snapshots with the handheld, drop it when I pick up a target, and revert to a two-hand grip if possible with the Glock to put rounds on the target.

This set-up also allows for a lot of redundancy and if I am in an area with better lighting (better in the sense that I can see without using my handheld) I will just revert to a 2H grip on my handgun. I can cycle through my options as necessary this way. If I can shoot without using the WML, i.e. take a surprise shot, I will also do so since that gives my position away less than using the WML.

This set-up is optimized through advice from Tom Givens, Craig Douglas (southnarc), and some FOF (armed movement in structures course) and also just personal technique testing using a SIRT gun. I also took a lowlight handgun course through Defensive Concepts NC where we put a lot of rounds downrange in low light, and this confirmed to me that rather than use light for the sake of using light, I'd rather revert to a 2H grip and have more accurate fire unless I absolutely must use the light to pick the target up. That's another reason the WML is good: you can hit a moving target in the dark without getting mentally overloaded.

 

[italy4nra]

There is a fantastic article on Box of Truth on torches and guns and the dark, the differnet issues, holds and training. Google box of truth and look for the articles. Hope it is OK to refernce an out of THR source.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

"Don't clear your own house. Stay put and wait for police". Ok. What if you have kids in another room? Guess they're SOL.

Also

You all are aware...you can use both a weapon light and and handheld light, right?

Do you're moving and searching with the handheld. If you need that other hand or if you need to cover a BG with light, turn the weapon light on and stow the handheld. Pretty simple.

I'm not sure why there seems to be so many people who fall into the "weapon light only" or "handheld light only" camps. Using both tools in situations that require each seems pretty obvious to me.

 

[JShirley]

I like lights.

I like the advantage of surprise.

I don't expect friendlies to wander in through locked doors, and if it's "just a drunk", he probably still deserves to be shot. How do I know he's not a threat unless he holds his hands high, wets himself, and verbally announces he's giving up? <some sarcasm intended, y'all>

I do want a mounted light. If I have time, I would like a backup free light. My Malkoff-bulbed SureFire weapons light can easily illuminate a potential threat without actually pointing my weapon at them. If I point a weapon at someone, it's because I'm in the process of shooting them, and they have just an instant to become nonthreatening.

Chindo is right on the money, as usual.

John

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by Sgt_R: I'm not going to pull the trigger until I've ID'd my target;....

I hope that everyone lives by that rule.

Posted by BBroadside: What made the decision for me to not bother with a flashlight mounted on a handgun was the realization that I'd be pointing the weapon at someone I had yet to identify.

That's a valid concern. Mas Ayoob recommends that a weapon mounted light be used to supplement, rather than in lieu of, a hand held device.

Posted by Rexster: As for not making a target of yourself, that is a valid concern, and that is where training comes in. Light can be a tremendous tactical advantage, and it can also draw fire. Learn to use it to your advantage.

Yes indeed. Might I suggest that having the area illuminated by house lights is preferable, and that the flashlight, though an extremely valuable tool, serve as a backup.

Just a word or two on tactics and assumptions: most, but not all, of the above posts contain words and phrases such as "the intruder", "the bad guy", "the home invader", "the suspect", and "all he can see is".

Most of the burglaries and home invasions reported in our area in recent weeks, months and years have involved more than one suspect. A simple analysis of the tactical situation as perceived by the criminal(s) should indicate the desirability, from the standpoint of the criminals, of having one or more accomplices.

It would seem to me that a defender faced with the likelihood of having to deal with multiple invaders would be much better off relying upon ambient lighting if at all possible.

I have flashlights, but none are mounted on firearms.

One reason for that is that the firearm with which I will defend against intruders who had entered while I was in the kitchen or living room will most likely be the one upon which I will rely for self defense at the ATM or at the service station. A foot race to get to a dedicated home defense weapon stowed somewhere in the house is not my preferred mission plan with our floor plans, and a handgun with a mounted light is not my preferred carry weapon.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Lights mounted on guns scream "mall ninja!" to me.

I resent that remark. I have one because I want to know if I should shoot or not, not blindly fire at that shadowy figure to find out that it was a family member getting a midnight snack or maybe someone has in your family has just started sleep walking. It's pretty dangerous to assume that the figure you see is a home invader. Those seconds to ask if that person who they are could be easily used against you to both reveal your position and to be shot at first while you wait for an answer. There was one case where a man shot his daughter who arrived home early from a business trip and didn't want to wake her dad up. She died in his arms because he thought that she was a criminal.

 

[allaroundhunter]

Lights mounted on guns scream "mall ninja!" to me.

So the rule "Be sure of your target and what is beyond it" does not apply when it is dark?

 

[Fred Fuller]

Yep.

Louis Awerbuck is a mall ninja.

Clint Smith is a mall ninja.

Any number of nationally and internationally ranked firearms trainers are all mall ninjas, as well as a lot of less well known instructors.

And if having a light on your defensive firearm makes you a mall ninja, then my 85 year old mom is a mall ninja too.

As am I.

Personally I want every advantage I can get, if it comes to having to defend myself. The very nature of self defense means starting out at a disadvantage, all too often. At this point I carry a small but bright flashlight all the time, just as I always carry a defensive sidearm, blade, pepper spray, cell phone etc. There's no way at present to mount a light on ther pistol I carry, but if there was, there would be a light on board as well as the one clipped in my pocket.

Your mileage may vary of course - personally I don't see well in the dark, and target ID is a critical thing as far as I'm concerned.

 

[ATLDave]

With the advent of LED's and CF light bulbs, it's very cheap to leave on a couple of lamps in the non-sleeping section of the house. Your timed coffee maker and your Tivo probably use more energy overnight. Although I've got a flashlight handy near the HD gun, I plan on using ambient light. I suppose if some SWAT team gone rouge decides to stage some raid on my house, or if a crackhead decides to stage a break-in during a thunderstorm-induced power outage I'll have to use the flashlight. Otherwise, I'm going to have both hands on my gun.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by Lee Lapin: Personally I want every advantage I can get, if it comes to having to defend myself. The very nature of self defense means starting out at a disadvantage, all too often.

I do not see how anyone could reasonably take issue with that.

At this point I carry a small but bright flashlight all the time, just as I always carry a defensive sidearm, blade, pepper spray, cell phone etc.

I also started carrying a Blackthorn when I had some back trouble about a year ago. I do not usually carry a blade, but I should.

There's no way at present to mount a light on ther pistol I carry, but if there was, there would be a light on board as well as the one clipped in my pocket.

I have never really given much thought to the idea, but I have no sound basis for disagreement. Actually, since we are both retired, we generally try to schedule things so that we are home at night. Not everyone has that luxury, of course.

...if a crackhead decides to stage a break-in during a thunderstorm-induced power outage I'll have to use the flashlight.

Our solution is certainly not available to everyone, but after one too many thunderstorm storm caused outages that took too long to remedy and a couple caused by ice on tree limbs, we bit the bullet and installed an automatic generator a few summers ago. Off topic, I know, but an element of overall risk management for those who can do it. Absent that possibility, battery backup lights might help. KEEP THE FLASHLIGHT EITHER WAY!

Posted by ATLDave: With the advent of LED's and CF light bulbs, it's very cheap to leave on a couple of lamps in the non-sleeping section of the house.

We keep a couple of lights on all the time, and my wife has put up some LED candle imitations that provide some light in the staircase and upstairs hall.

Although I've got a flashlight handy near the HD gun, I plan on using ambient light.

My thoughts exactly--but understand that "the HD gun" is where I am. I choose to not rely on a preconceived notion that a break-in will necessarily occur at night when we are in the bedroom.

And by the way, I have never thought for a moment that my CCW instructor might be a mall ninja.

 

[OregonJohnny]

Also, keep in mind that even if you have a light mounted on your home defense gun, you don't have to use it.

I see no disadvantage in keeping a Streamlight TLR-1 mounted on my Sig 220, which I keep as my primary HD weapon. The added weight doesn't bother me since I'm not carrying it concealed, and in fact it actually helps keep muzzle flip down slightly. It does not get in the way at all, and yet the rocker switch is easily reached if needed. The light is just there, doing nothing, until I decide I need it. Better to have it and not need it, than...

I also keep a handheld flashlight by the bed. As others have said, the weapon-mounted light on a handgun should supplement a handheld light, not replace it. Having 1 hand free to do a multitude of other things is very desirable.

As for breaking 1 of the 4 rules - a moderately bright weapon light can light up an entire room with ambient light, simply by pointing it at a 45 degree angle to the floor. And using the momentary switch to give a half-second burst of light, will be enough to identify who/what/where.

 

[Deanimator]

I don't like pointing a firearm at something I don't KNOW I want to destroy.

No lights on guns for me.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I don't like pointing a firearm at something I don't KNOW I want to destroy.

No lights on guns for me.

As for breaking 1 of the 4 rules - a moderately bright weapon light can light up an entire room with ambient light, simply by pointing it at a 45 degree angle to the floor. And using the momentary switch to give a half-second burst of light, will be enough to identify who/what/where.

Well there's that.

Also, what if you need one of your hands to do something other than pointing a handheld light at a bad guy? Open a door, turn on a light switch, make a phone call, pick up a child. You have two hands. One has a gun, the other has a light. To do any of those other things, you need to take one of those things, gun or light, out of commission while you use the hand to do something else. Which do you choose?


Or you could have the light and gun in one package and have a free hand AND have a handheld light. Just use a handheld light most of the time, and transition to the weapon light only when and if you need that other hand for something else. Options are good. Use both.

Everything OregonJohnny said is spot on. You don't have to use the weapon light if you have one. It's there in case you need it. You never know what situation will crop up someday. You can never predict when and how you will need to use both of your hands, or why you would be moving through your house, or pointing your gun or light at whatever. You cannot predict everything. So leaving as many options open as possible is always best. Use a handheld light as much as possible. But have a weapon light. Just in case. You never know.

The time you finally need that one specialized tool is a poor time to realize you don't have it. I pray to God you are never in a situation where you need any tactical light at all. But if that day comes, I hope you have as many tools to aide you as you can.

 

[Lee D]

because of my children, i prefer handheld lights. i dont necessarily like the idea of pointing my gun to look around in the dark.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

because of my children, i prefer handheld lights. i dont necessarily like the idea of pointing my gun to look around in the dark.

And if the day comes when you need to pick one of your children up but still be able to use your gun and a light?

 

[2WheelsGood]

because of my children, i prefer handheld lights. i dont necessarily like the idea of pointing my gun to look around in the dark.

Any decent weapon light provides enough light that you could point it at the wall behind you, or the floor, or the ceiling, or pretty much anywhere else and it'll still provide plenty of light. There's no need to point it directly at anyone. But that seems so self-evident I'm not sure why anyone has to point it out.

 

[Beaux Nehr]

This topic is a bit well-done, no?

The arguments posed by gun-light dissenters have been well covered in this and many other threads. These issues are all covered by training, apparently.

"don't want to point gun at X"
So don't. The gun produces a usable amount of light outside of the sight picture.

"I don't want to be a glowy target. They'll see me easier.

So don't leave the light on. Flash it to create a polaroid, then get movin'.

etc...

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

because of my children, i prefer handheld lights. i dont necessarily like the idea of pointing my gun to look around in the dark.

As for breaking 1 of the 4 rules - a moderately bright weapon light can light up an entire room with ambient light, simply by pointing it at a 45 degree angle to the floor. And using the momentary switch to give a half-second burst of light, will be enough to identify who/what/where.

People really should read through a thread before posting as that aspect is already covered.