Flinlock timing

[mustanger]

I expect this has been addressed in the past, and I didn't go back far enough. How does an inexperienced person check the timing on a flintlock? At least enough to tell if it needs to be checked out by someone who knows what they are doing. I know enough to adjust the flint so it is touching the closed frizzen at half cock. Even new flint is pulled out farther than I think it should be, when I do this. I have a Cabelas (Interarms) .54 Hawken. It deffinately goes poof, then boom. Not poof-boom, and deffinately not pooboom. The actual sequence is, poof, I turn my head to look, and then it goes boom. I am now using FFg in the barrel, and FFFg to prime. I prime with a small pan priming flask that you depress the spout to release the powder. Don't know how many grains,weather it's 1 or 3 grains, but I find myself depressing it 3-4-5-awheck,6 times. Does not seem like enough powder. I am thinking that 3f does not feed as well out of it as 4f would. I have never had any 4f so don't know. I've read, bank the powder against flash hole if you have toruble igniting, even to poke some grains into the flash hole. I have also read, don't do that. I bought the gun used, but nothing looks bent, appears in like new condition.

 

[jaguarxk120]

The powder in the pan (FFFF) should flash. Covering the flash hole with the powder, you are makinga fuse and the ignition is slow.
The powder should be level with the flash hole not covering it.
When shooting there should no waiting for the rifle to go off. A flintlock will shoot just like a modern rifle. No difference in shooting.

 

[PapaG]

You should also NOT cover the touchhole with banked up powder. Rather, put enough powder in the pan to come up to the touchhole, then tip the rifle slightly to the right so the powder banks slightly away from the touchhole. This lets the powder ignite and "shoot" the flame into the touchhole.
Try it. It works. Not easy to do in hunting but is great for target shooting.

 

[Oldnamvet]

You also might enlarge the vent hole slightly. I always found a #50 drill was about the right size.

 

[alsask]

Mustanger,

Are you sure it's an Interarms and not an Investarms rifle?

 

[xXxplosive]

The Touch Hole should be drilled out to 3/32" dia.
Flint should be knapped and tested in the frizzen with no load in the rifle or pan....just check that the frizzen sparks and opens correctly. Fill pan about 2/3 full and make sure no moisture gets in.....if your hunting, you might want to cover frizzen joint at pan with Bee's Wax.....been using it for 20+ years now.

 

[jaguarxk120]

Before you start drilling out the flash hole try the other options you have. 3/32 inch is verrry big for a flash hole, it works but you will loose velocity because it is so large.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

You mentioned that you have a used Interarms flintlock. These rifles are often made with an "improved" breech, so there is a tiny chamber where some of the powder from the main charge rests and where the touch hole (and the liner if there is one) contacts that charge.

When this chamber gets dirty, and or corrosion starts..., it prevents the powder from completely filling the chamber, and thus you get poor ignition. So first..., consider getting a .17 caliber bore brush, and see if there is such a chamber, and try to clean it out.

Put the priming tool away in the gadget box until you are target shooting and using 4Fg for prime.

Load the main charge and a ball. Then prick the touch hole, and you should get a crunch when you hit the main charge. Some folks then remove the prick and prime the pan, some leave the prick in place, and prime the pan, to ensure a teeny tiny gap. Fill the complete pan.

See if this improves the situation for you.

So, clean out the breech, load, prick, fill the pan, close the frizzen and give it a try, before you enlarge the touch hole.

LD

 

[winterhorse290]

and don,t forget to prick the hole. soft brass or copper wire works. you should be able to feel the powder"crunch".

 

[ThorinNNY]

What color is your spark when the flint hits the frizzen? If it`s an orange spark, that could be your problem.

 

[woodsrunner38]

jaguar, Loyalist and winter are, IMO, pinging on target.

A year or so ago on a Message Board composed of really professional muzzleloader builders and competition shooters-mostly flintlocks-time-lapse photography was shown of what actually takes place when the trigger is tripped on a flintlock. If everything is tuned right, the lock highly polished inside, (you won't have this with a commercially made muzzleloader lock) the flint correctly knapped and set in the cock, the frizzen temper correct to throw a maximum of sparks, everything fine tuned and correct, then......

The flint will shower sparks down the face of the frizzen igniting powder in the pan BEFORE the frizzen is totally open, igniting the main charge in the chamber and starting the ball on its way down the bore. An interesting thing that wasn't known before is that when the frizzen opens totally it will rebound back to the closed position striking the cock and occasionally breaking the flint. It may do this twice. With everything properly in tune you will never have any of this KLAK-POOF-BOOM that the "unknowing" always say about flintlocks. You should never preceive any delay between the trigger tripping and the main charge igniting.....IF everything is set properly!

 

[[email protected]]

This is me 20 years ago. I made the video slower than normal so you could
see the action a little better. Flintlocks do indeed fire fast!!



My Flintlock pistol is a fast firing lock also.

 

[BCRider]

I just got the hint about picking the flash hole as well this weekend during a BP fun shoot. I already knew about keeping the flash pan powder over to the outside away from the hole. Picking the flash hole DID make a difference. The fellow that gave me that hint claimed that it makes room for the flash to touch more of the powder in the chamber and thus get a faster and more reliable initial burn. The results I got after beginning to do this were impressively fast and consistent.

On the other hand when I must have tipped the gun the other way and had the powder cover the flash hole it seemed like forever before it would fire. I missed all the time in those cases not because I started to put the gun down but because the smoke from the flash ruined my sight picture enough that the barrel wandered before the ball left...... at least that's my story and I'm sticking to it....

 

[[email protected]]

Well Tuned Lock

 

[hang fire]

A good lock and correct TH will repeatedly fire the gun upside down.

For the no TH liner purists and for faster ignition, I used to make an internal touch-hole coning gizmo.

 

[BCRider]

Hang fire, is there any reason why a small size center drill would not work as well? It would be a 60 degree included angle which would not be far off what your measurements come out to be anyway.

 

[hang fire]

If coned from the outside, some priming powder could leak into lock mortise and that is not good, as might make for a little bomb someday. Nor would it allow the main powder charge to be brought closer to the pan. This tool allows the cone to be cut from inside the barrel, not coned on the outside.

The tool is slipped into the bore and the shaft is then slipped through the drilled touch hole, the shaft sticking out is then chucked up in a hand drill. (or on drill press) By rotating to the right and pulled outward, tool cuts the inner cone in TH enough to have powder charge brought close to the pan so the priming flash sets it off very fast. Some original barrels from the days of yore had the inner cone, which some trad purists want. The resulting quicker ignition of the powder charge cannot be had by just drilling a hole straight into side of barrel

If you have seen the inner cone on a TH liner, it does the same thing sans the liner.

 

[jaguarxk120]

As stated before get a can of FFFFg powder for priming. It will make a world of difference.

 

[woodsrunner38]

hang fire, are you associated with Jim Chambers and Barbie? Thinkin' I probably know you from past events, etc.

 

[hang fire]

No, I have never met either of them.

The only ML event I have been to in last 25 years or more, was the 2007 Bill Williams rondy up near Williams, Arizona.

 

[mustanger]

Thank you for your responses. So far I haven't found any 4f in the stores, or shops. Still looking and checking. I did goof up when I said Interarms (don't know why). I is Investarms. I checked the spark (holding the gun sideways in front of me), and there seems to be plenty of yellow spark. (definately yellow). I can see and hear, (or not hear? lol) that there is no rebounding of the frizzen and pan cover. When I clean the gun I use the cleaning jag and patch for the barrel, and a .30 cal. rod with slotted tip and fold the patch across the front of it, to clean the powder chamber (patent chamber). I do get the impression that the lock work could use some smoothing and ???? stiffening up. Just an impression. Have to do some shooting, while thinking about your responses. See what I can notice. Again thank you.

 

[[email protected]]

I use Swiss 7F It's known as "Null B" The test I ran, it's a lot faster
than Goex 4 F. My Flintlocks go off really quick.

 

[mustanger]

Think I'm gonna try and find a morter and pestil, and grind some 3f finer. I'll keep the nul B in mind along with 4f just in case. Also Maybe I'll try to come up with a head brace, or a small screen to block my veiw of the lock. I cannot help turning my head and looking when the pan lites up. Maybe I'll get brave and take a look at the lockworks, and see about taking it apart and smoothing it a bit, and maybe bending the spring wider to strengthen it. The new flint barely fits in the cock, and is padded with leather. I'm thinking of flatening a .32 ball, or maybe a .45 to use instead.

 

[BCRider]

Hangfire, I hadn't realized that your tool is intended to cut from the inside. Thanks for that.

Mustanger, I recall reading that it's best to grind down any powder with it watered to form a paste. That way there's no risk of setting it off. Once ground finer lay the paste out to dry fully before packing it away again. Prudence would also suggest small batches at a time.

 

[hang fire]

I prime with same powder as the main charge. but I have seen guys grind ffg powder down for priming by putting small amount of powder on a glass surface, take a tablespoon and just crush the powder by pressing down on the tablespoon and rocking it back and forth.

I have always heard how sensitive BP is, but the BPCR guys crush the heck out of it all the time with powder compression dies when loading their cartridges. Sometimes in straight wall cases they will crush it down as much as 1/2 inch. They claim that compressed BP is much more powerful by weight and burns a lot cleaner.

They even make and sell compression dies and plugs for doing so.

http://www.google.com/#pq=compressi...f.,cf.osb&fp=cec1f33bc6693282&biw=960&bih=465