flinter won't spark

[BHP FAN]

well, my Dixie Tower Pistol doesn't want to spark.It could be the frizzen isn't sufficiently hardened.With a selection of flints from the parts box [my brother's I haven't had a flinch lock in years] we got this thing to off a grand total of...once.I could see that there was only one or two sparks.Not exactly the shower of sparks I was hopeing for.At first, I thought it might be the flint,but we tried the flint in my brother's Harper's Ferry,and it sparked ok....?

 

[StrawHat]

Tower Pistols from Dixie and others were not expensive and often had soft frizzens and springs. You can reharden the frizzen with a product like Kasenite or possibly get a new hard frizzen and replace it.

Years ago I would reface frizzens with a fitted piece of saw blade. After soldering I would water quench the repaired frizzen to harden the steel.

 

[Oyeboten]

Oil film on Frizzen? (Preventing Sparks...?)

 

[Metalbender]

Some things to try not trying to sound like I know everything but I've been shooting (30yrs) flintlocks for awhile and these are just some ideas for you to resolve the problem

make sure you have a good sharp flint if the edge gets to rounded you will need to nap it

when your frizzen is back and in the fireing position adjust the frlint in the jaws of your hammer so it only has a slight gap between it and frizzen and tighten it down

after you have the above done check to see if the flint points to the center of the pan in the fired position usally you have better ignition if it does or is fairly close, you may need to tweek the hammer, heat and bend carefully

wipe frizzen and flint down w/rubbing alcohol dry witha clean oil free rag or patch

what kinda flints are you using ? the english flint that Track of the Wolf sell are your best choice other folks sell them also. Log cabin shop is another

if all else fails you may need to do a reharden of the frizzen

hope this helps

 

[BHP FAN]

Thanks guys.The same flints that produce a shower of sparks in my brothers 1803 make about three lazy sparks from my ''new'' pistola.Time to reharden the frizzen,I'm afraid.

 

[sundance44s]

Something else to try ...some locks spark better with the flint knapped edge down ...others I`ve had do better with the edge up ....I always try both ways with a new lock ..............like said the black english flints are hard to beat ...I buy mine from Dixiegunworks ....14 bucks a doz. well worth it

One other thing to try ...flatten a round ball with a hammer then cut a wrap for your flint the size of the leather wrap out of the flattened lead .
The lead wrap will take the bounce out of the flint strike as it hits the frizzen ......some locks have a weak main spring and this lead wrap helps insure a solid strike .

Just some things I`d try before replaceing or rehardening the frizzen .

 

[robhof]

I also have a flinter that doesn't spark well, I actually have 2 and one sparks well, I believe it's the frizzen; how do you harden it?

 

[arcticap]

There are different methods that require different procedures, equipment and skill levels.

Basically, there's techniques for surface case hardening which may only be temporary and those for obtaining a more true & thorough frizzen hardening. And then there's also some of the old time ways including carburizing it with bone meal or relining it with hardened file steel.

However, Track of the Wolf sells Kasenit to try to do surface hardening yourself and they also offer to harden the frizzen for the customer for the price of $20 to $30 until it's acceptably hard, but they do require that the entire lock be sent to them. This offer is mentioned in the instructions that Track includes with the Kasenit which is a good idea to let the experts deal with it considering all of the work, equipment and risk of failure involved.

Alternate technique:
Send your entire lock to Track of the Wolf, and our gunsmith will harden your frizzen, and tune it for sparking ability. Cost is typically $20.00 to $30.00 and depends on time and materials required to achieve success. Charge Visa, MasterCard, or request UPS/COD. We must have the entire lock, not just the frizzen.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/pdfs/kasenit.pdf

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(eu...catId=15&subId=88&styleId=331&partNum=KASENIT


There's many threads with more or less information about hardening, quenching and then oven tempering a frizzen.
The first is the most in depth thread about the true hardening process which gives a thorough idea about the difficulties involved. When you're finished reading through these, you'll probably just want to send it to Track of the Wolf and let them do it for you.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=641.0

There's some general info. in these other threads:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=240883&highlight=hardening+frizzen

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=292374&highlight=hardening+frizzen

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=390586&highlight=hardening+frizzen

 

[mykeal]

The same flints that produce a shower of sparks in my brothers 1803 make about three lazy sparks from my ''new'' pistola.Time to reharden the frizzen,I'm afraid.

Not necessarily. The geometry of the two guns is entirely different, so the details of how the flint strikes the frizzen, which matter a great deal, may be the problem. You should tune the lock as metalbender suggests before giving up on the frizzen.

Does the frizzen have any grooves or gouges in it's surface? If so, where are they (halfway down, near the top, near the bottom...)?

Hardening the frizzen is certainly a candidate but frankly, lots and lots of frizzens are 'hardened' into uselessness when they were not the problem in the first place. Flintlocks are a whole lot more complex than just a sharp flint and a hard frizzen.

 

[hildo]

Hardening the frizzen, the simple way

I have a copy of the French M1777 Charleville musket. Mine was made for the colonial (black) troops, and used from 1895 to 1900 in the oil rivers of Niger, Africa. The lock was a de-tuned model so it would not be reliable as the original army musket.
The gunmakers did a good job since the lock was crap then, and it still is.
The frizzen was soft and refused to spark properly. You can see it don't look to fresh anymore either.

The pan must be removed from the gun first. First I took the spring off, with a simple tool. Everybody has one, no need to buy something fancy.

I had to make it more or less smooth first, otherwise a new flint would not last very long

Then a bought a can of Kasenit fom a local gunstore. It is used to surface harden metal.

This what the Kasenite looks like from up close. I wonder what it is.. some kind of charcole or so?

To harden put as much Kasenit on top of the pan as possible, on the side where the flint will hit. Then you have to heat the pan in such a way that the metal will become red. I finally heated the pan from the bottom, this gave the best result and it can be done with a hobby propane burner, although the amount of heat the burner provides is not enough to get the pan to a bright red glow. The Kasenite grains will start to melt and bubble. This will bring carbon into the metal which will improve sparking.
I have added more Kasenit several times, and brought it back to dark red-hot.

Then I threw the pan in water, which gave a little explosion since the pan was red hot. Be carefull for hot water splashing around. Maybe cooling in oil works better since it has a higher boiling point, I don't know.

This may not be the professional way but my surface harding worked quite good, and it is simple to do. I tried filing the pan, and it was noticibly harder. The pan sparks quite well now.

Good luck,
Hildo

 

[Zeke/PA]

Try turning the flint over!

 

[zimmerstutzen]

WARNING. Does it have proof marks or does it say Black powder only on it. Back around 1977, when I ran a sporting goods store, there were some real cheap "tower" style pistols. Some were manuafactured in China or some other equally disgraceful place and looked in all respects like shooters, but were mild steel and perhaps not intended as shooters although sold for that purpose. The ones we had were recalled, but not before a few dozen were sold. Some never came back and are still "out there" Two brothers outside of Phila. were killed whe n the long musket version of the gun blew up. Get it checked, please.

 

[arcticap]

The OP stated that it was a Dixie Tower pistol and the Dixie Tower muskets are also known to have soft frizzens and ignition problems as mentioned in a previous thread.
I wouldn't be too concerned about Dixie selling a dangerous non-shooting replica since they're such an old reputable outfit.
I realize that it's better to be safe than sorry, but if it's truely a Dixie then the quality of the barrel shouldn't be dangerous. At least others haven't mentioned that regarding their similar Japanese/Miroku made Dixie Tower muskets.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=273410&highlight=tower+japan

 

[1KPerDay]

I have a tower pistol... how do I tell if it's dixie/shootable? Also I need a new mainspring... it's like mush. Does dixie sell replacements?

 

[BHP FAN]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKKhIOx707M

 

[BHP FAN]

1k per day,we have the same pistol....on mine it says ''Dixie Gunworks'' right down the center of the top of the barrel.
Thanks every one of you for the help and support.I'm going to try the youtube method [tin can full of leather] on my next day off.
If that does not do the trick,Hildo's Kasnit method is next up!

 

[4v50 Gary]

If you harden your frizzen, be sure to temper it so it won't shatter on you. After it is cool, draw it to a straw color and voila! You're done. Install and test.

 

[BHP FAN]

When you quench it,aren't you adding the temper then? I may end up sending this to track of the wolf like articap suggested...I only have one frizzen,and these haven't been made since the 70's,so....no spare parts!

 

[4v50 Gary]

Quenching hardens the steel. The frizzen should then be reheated to straw color so as to temper it so it won't shatter.

 

[gyvel]

An oldie, but a goodie for a cheap, quick fix: Just glue a piece of coarse emery paper to the frizzen.

 

[[email protected]]

You can put in your oven in the kitchen at 400 for about a hour. That will
draw it back just about right.

 

[Metalbender]

It breaking do to being to hard is a problem but first you have to be using a good carbon tool steel, you dont know the make up of your steel frizzen so its a guessing thing . You may not have a real problem with it because it wont get that hard ! I have been blacksmithing for awhile and I've seen what a pc of W2 steel will be like when quenched in water you dont even wanna think about putting it in a vise to work on I tried and broke a few pcs . If I new it would turn out well I could harden it for you I would do it in the coal forge . Ive never used the kasenite or cherry red its made for using on mild steel wich has to low of carbon content in it to get real hard , which ever you choose to use just follow the instuctions others I've talked to those who have used it the biggest thing is being able to get hot enough if you have access to a oxyacetylene torch you got plenty of heat, if not get 2 propane torchs and maybe use a map gas bottle on em and it will give you more heat . If I new it would turn out well I could harden it for you I would do it in the coal forge I havnt had the need to try this yet but some day imsure I will

 

[4v50 Gary]

What [email protected] says. Oven at 400 F for one hour does the same trick.

 

[BHP FAN]

the last time I had to do this was 1974,or so,and I just heated the frizzen [same exact type of gun too] with a torch,and tossed it in used motor oil..but I think I'll try the leather method,and make sure I use the oven before the little woman comes home!

 

[hildo]

Tempering is not necessary when surface hardening, like what I did with the Kasenit. The heat is applied just for a relative short time and you can't go wrong.

The can with the leather (you can use charcoal too I hear) is a simple solution. Would like to try it sometime, but not on an historic lock like I have since I can't get an other one.
Think when you heat for a long(er) time the metal of the frizzen becomes hard through & through. Upon impact with the flint it could shatter like a piece of glass. I am not sure how hard it is and if tempering is necessary, since they don't do it in the video. Maybe tempering would make it too soft again.

I have read that through & through hardening & tempering requires quite exact temperatures and time.

Good luck with what ever you try. I would like you to post the results, if possible.

Hildo