Flying with CCW in NY

[Tomcat017]

Hello All,

I'm new to the forum (though I've been lurking for a while) and finally singed up. Aside from the post over in "new members" I wanted to start by asking a question of everyone. I have a friend who lives in WA, where it is legal for me to CCW. I have a sportsman's restricted cuss NY permit as well. I'd like to fly out there sometime in the next few months, and do some shooting with him--so I'd like to bring the gun.

I've read a whole bunch of threads already, and have a good idea of the range of things that I can expect. What I didn't find were threads where you guys flew out of NYC. As you probably know, NYC is extremely anti gun--in fact, my permit is not valid there. I assume, however, that it is OK to travel through (technically, including the airport) with a locked gun under the provisions of FOPA, since I'm travelling from Suffolk (where my gun is legal) to WA (where my gun is legal). I'm very nervous, however, bringing it into LaGuardia or JFK, seeing how strict the city is, and how others have been grossly mistreated and held for days by NYPD, port authority, etc.

Anyone have any experiences flying into and out of NYC to share? Any special precautions? I'll post any more info you need as well, just ask. Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[JustRick]

How about shipping it FedEx or UPS to your friend before you leave? It would cost you a few bucks, but it might be better than dealing with our LE friends at the airport.

 

[3fgburner]

Not a lawyer, and not from NY, but I've heard (I think here on THR), that NYPD explicitly refuses to recognize the Firearm Owner's Protection Act.

 

[Elmer]

How about shipping it FedEx or UPS to your friend before you leave? It would cost you a few bucks, but it might be better than dealing with our LE friends at the airport

.

Run afoul of the law then too, unless it's between FFL's.......

 

[CNYCacher]

Did you try calling the airport or NYPD and see what they say?

Can't you fly out of Albany or Syracuse?

 

[kingpin008]

How about shipping it FedEx or UPS to your friend before you leave? It would cost you a few bucks, but it might be better than dealing with our LE friends at the airport.

What a perfect way to buy yourself a Federal felony.:banghead:


You can't ship a handgun to your friend in WA, unless that friend happens to be a FFL. What you can do, is send it to yourself in care of your friend, with specific instructions that the friend not open the package. You are the only one allowed to open the package in that situation, and that's only for long guns that aren't already disallowed under the laws of whatever state you're shipping to.

 

[Rxxdoc]

You need to call the Airport and follow their procedure. Also, I hope it is not you most prized gun. I have heard (but not verified) that guns get stolen occasionally by the people who work at the airport.

 

[Tomcat017]

Quick update: Called LaGuardia. They told me to call the Port Authority Police. Called the Port Authority Police, and they told me to contact TSA. Contacted TSA, who told me to contact the individual airline. Haven't yet done that, since I have no idea who I'll be flying with. I guess advice from someone who's flow through NY would be best. Thanks for the help so far everyone. It is a hangun, and neither my friend nor I is an FFL--so the mailing option is out.

 

[everallm]

Get their early....

Print out and take several copies of FOPA with you (available on the NRA-ILA site) to hand out when at the airport including leaving one inside the locked luggage carrier.

Keep a camera available and a notebook and if anyone start getting snarky be polite, hand them a copy of FOPA and pointedly record their name and ask for their manager. Escalate and hand out copies as you go.

Ditto with TSA and NYPD get names, badge numbers etc.

Whilst NYC and (some) NYPD may like to think they are their own little gods they still know they are still accountable to the law and when they are being recorded in violation tend to back off if they feel they could be personally held responsible.

Best of luck

 

[SMMAssociates]

Tomcat:

Can you grab alternate transport to some "safe" airport? Like Philadelphia? (Well, almost safe .)

And, don't take a gun you like....

Regards,

 

[Tomcat017]

Stu,

I think I will have to fly out of either JFK or LaGuardia, in NYC. You guys are scaring me too with the whole "leave your good guns at home" . Anyone want to give me odds on how dangerous this trip actually is? And of course, anyone who's done it---chime in!

 

[wulf]

I have heard credible stories

of travelers with checked firearms being arrested at NYC airports.

 

[jon_in_wv]

It is legal to mail or ship a weapon to YOURSELF in another state. Simply mail it to yourself, C/O your friends address, and tell him not to open it. When you get there, you open it. This is perfectly legal NOT a loophole, it is the actual legal method.

 

[JustRick]

My shipping suggestion was to send it to yourself at the far end. It hadn't occurred to me that this would violate federal law.

What would be the legal implication of breaking the weapon down and sending part by FedEx and carrying part? I know that with rifles receiver=gun, but what's the rule with hand guns? I'm pretty curious about this. IANAL.

 

[MrBill120]

You can travel to the airport with the firearm in a locked case, and ammo stored separetely.
Yes you can travel THRU NYC so long as the gun is in the locked box, not loaded.

Your permit is a NYS restricted permit for hunting, fishing, camping, etc(probably either Orange, Rockland, Putnam, or Westchester counties) that means your are entitled to conceal carry (the only way here in NYS) while to and from the event ie: fishing, hunting, range. You are not entitled to go to say Gander Mtn with the gun on your person....unless ofcourse you are going to/from range etc..blah blah blah....

You are to contact your airline! You will be guided by the airline's customer service. GET A NAME! And have your ticket info available when you call. There might be a form to fill out..?? The main thing is, the airline needs to know that there is a checked firearm on their plane. It's the people who forget it's in there luggage who get in trouble. "oops! gee!! Sorry!!"

The TSA shouldn't be a problem so long as you inform them upon arrival you will be checking a firearm with Bob's Airline and the gun is packaged properly.

Enjoy! (don't forget to check the local laws for where you're going!)
-MrBill

 

[rkba_net]

"Not a lawyer, and not from NY, but I've heard (I think here on THR), that NYPD explicitly refuses to recognize the Firearm Owner's Protection Act."

Untrue... NYPD is aware of the law... I have traveled through NYC on occation and never had a problem...

 

[rtroha]

(B9) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b9

 

[jon_in_wv]

There is no legal issue in shipping or transferring across state line "PARTS". The serial numbered receiver is the part that would be considered a firearm legally.

 

[RobNDenver]

Do Not Call NYPD

The airports that you said you would fly from are La Guardia and JFK. Both are controlled by the Port of New York and New Jersey police departments. Neither of these airports are safe to begin a trip, due to the capricious nature of the Port Police officers. NYPD has nothing to do with this.

You seem to be in better shape than most, since you have a NY pistol permit, which allows you to possess a firearm, but that may not mean anything to the cops who will inevitably be called to the counter when you attempt to check in an unloaded firearm.

If you choose to fly with your firearm, here is my suggestion. . . make several copies of your NY Permit, make several copies of your itinerary and the relevant portions of the FOPA. Do not call the airport to ask about procedures, visit your airlines website and print several copies of their policies. Give the copies to the police officers and advise them that you left your home with this weapon, made no stops between your leaving and your arrival at LGA or JFK and that you are continuing your journey to Washington state by air.

As you may know already, TSA has nothing to do with this. It is the policy of the airline and the intervention of the Port Authority police that will trip you up, legal or not.

Oh, and I completely disagree with the poster who says to bring a camera and a notepad and to escalate this if you run into a roadblock at first? . . . If you take out a recorder and camera and make this a pi^*(&(ing contest, guess who is going to win that fight? You may be right, but you likely will miss your flight that day and may wind up persona non grata on the airline.

Out of New York, I actually like the idea of shipping your unloaded firearm to yourself in care of a custodian at the other end. Traveling back to New York, you will be subject to the airlines policy in Washington and no one in NY will have to know that you have an unloaded, declared firearm in your checked baggage.

Remember "its all about the children, and if it saves only one life". . Security Theater and you don't want to be in that cast.

Good luck. . . and sorry that you live in a state that can't trust its citizens. . .

 

[TallPine]

Sad ... this used to be "America" Land of the Free

 

[Tomcat017]

Thanks for the help Rob. As you pointed out, TSA won't be a problem, nor should NYPD be. The airlines all seem to allow shipping without a problem. LaGuardia's rules prohibit firearms only in air operations areas. So the stopping point appears to be only port authority police, as you pointed out. You think it's likely that they will be called over?

As far as shipping, let me just ask again, since someone mentioned that mailing to yourself was only OK for long guns. Mailing a handgun would be legal, even though I'm not an FFL? I'll see if I can find the applicable law in the mean time.

Anyway, you've got me nervous. Don't really want to have an arrrest on my record, and I really don't want any harm to come to my gun... Man, I wish someone had recently done this .

 

[StealthyBlagga]

I can't comment from experience on whether it is wise to take a handgun into the NYC area. In the mid-90s I did fly into Chicago O'Hare airport with a handgun (I stopped over in the Chicago suburbs for a few days on my way to a USPSA match) and I did not have any problems despite Chicago's infamous zero tolerance for handguns (unless you are a politician of course).

If it were me, given the capricious reputation of NYC law enforcement, I'd just ship the gun - its probably safer with FedEx Next Day than it is with the baggage handlers at JFK anyway. Even then, I would not take a fancy multi-thousand dollar custom 1911... take a Glock or something that is functional but that will not break your heart if it does get "mislaid".

One point I did want to make; you mentioned "mailing" the gun to you. If its a handgun, you cannot send it by USPS unless you are an FFL. Long guns are OK, but not handguns. Instead, you have to use a common carrier like FedEx or UPS, and their policies mandate that you only use their next day air service... figure maybe $50 ? IMHO this is cheap compared with the potential pitfalls of bringing a gun into an NYC airport. JMHO.

 

[anarchris]

NYC is a police state, I have an uncle who is NYPD.
His policy is to arrest anyone who has a handgun without a NYC permit.
I emailed him FOPA and he said he would still arrest and they could show it to the judge.
good luck.

 

[kingpin008]

To be clear, the "mailing it to yourself" thing only applies to rifles and shotguns. Handguns are regulated differently at a Federal level as well as state level, and must at least be recieved by a FFL at the chosen destination. I am trying to find the applicable law, but I'm not great at such searches, so if anyone is able to get it found before I do, go ahead and post it.

As far as shipping parts, it's pretty much pointless since the reciever is considered the firearm, and will have to be shipped through a FFL regardless of how you transport the other parts. For a handgun, that means that the slide and mags can come with you, but the frame will have to be transferred to a dealer and picked up once you reach your destination.

The reports of stolen guns at airports is something I'm dubious of. Yes, I'm sure it happens, but then again, they used to put a big old sticker on the OUTSIDE of your luggage that pretty much told anyone who cared that there was a firearm inside. Things have changed, and that no longer is required. All indications that you have a firearm in the case will be hidden, as long as you transport the locked hard-sided case containing the gun inside a larger, non-descript piece of luggage. At that point, if your bag containing the gun is stolen, well, it was gonna be stolen no matter what, and not because the handler knew there was a pistol inside.

Hundreds, if not thousands of people fly with guns every day. As long as you follow the rules and pack your case inside another piece of luggage, you'll be fine.

 

[jon_in_wv]

As it was posted above from the ATF website the law does NOT pertain differently to handguns. It is only illegal to transfer or ship a firearms to a resident of another state, not to yourself. (Excluding any communist STATE laws where you may live, there is no such Federal law) If is legally comparable to driving across state lines with your firearm. There is nothing illegal unless the firearm is itself somehow illegal in that state. The legal problem starts if you ship it across state lines to someone ELSE or if you drive across state lines to sell a firearm.

Personally I wouldn't dream of taking a firearm in my checked baggage. I'd ship it every time.