Flying With Firearms Question

[Scurrent]

I am flying from Newark, NJ to Tucson, AZ next week with my Sig 226 and Beretta 950 for a defensive shooting course. Some questions:

1. As a hard case, can I use the locking case that came with my SIG from the manufacturer, and put a small padlock on it? I would then put it in my checked luggage and declare it at the airport check in counter.

2. I was told that I needed to bring 300 rounds of ammunitiion for the course. If I pack this in another hard case and lock it, is this permissible, or is there a maximum ammunition amount that I can bring?

3. Am i better off just brining a small amount of ammo, and purchasing the remainder in Tucson?

4. I assume, from reading the AZ State website that my Florida CCW permit is valid there. Any comments?

Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated. --Steve

 

[EAdams]

Here are some previous threads on THR about this:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=216537
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-215714.html
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-207094.html
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-141406.html

I would think the less ammo you bring the less nervous you will make TSA when declaring and during inspection.. Unless you have really odd ammo requirements I would think it would be best to buy in AZ.

As for FL reciprocity in AZ the only comments I would be aware of are from the FLDoA:

(7) Florida issues concealed carry licenses to persons whose civil rights and firearms rights have been restored and thereby made whole in the eyes of the law and the Constitution. However, ARIZONA will honor a concealed weapon license ONLY if those rights were restored by a full pardon signed by the Governor or President of the United States. ARIZONA will not honor a concealed weapon license in possession of a Florida licensee if those rights were restored by any other means than a full pardon. Therefore, a Florida licensee who has had civil and firearms rights restored but who has NOT received a pardon from the Governor or President of the United States is prohibited from carrying a concealed firearm in ARIZONA.

 

[orb]

My recent experience with TSA and NWA was TSA indicated that 10 lbs. ammo was their limit, NWA said 11 lbs. I was going to bring the 11 th # and stuff it in if I could bring it, glad I didn't because NWA checked first then TSA. TSA asked what kind of ammo and I told them mostly 9mm. with a few .38 special, and they asked any ".50 or larger?" and I thought well you sure didn't have that little restriction on your web-site. And then when I had called NWA regarding number of fire-arms (I think TSA limit is 2) the NWA guy said there is no limit, I thought hmm...then he said oh, the first one is free but every one after that is $85 a piece.

 

[Spyvie]

When flying with a firearm, I prefer the lighter weapons in my collection. Less weight keeps my arms from tiring so quickly...

 

[GHF]

My Thoughts

Having traveled a number of times, here's how I go at it:

1. Put the unloaded weapon(s) in a lockable hard-sided case with locks only you have the keys to open. TSA locks are not allowed.
2. Check the airline(s) you are flying on:
   • Determine if the ammo MUST be in boxes OR can fly in loaded magazines.
   • If loaded magazines are permitted, make sure the pouches fully cover the magazines.
   • The round from the pipe(s) must be in a box, not loose.
3. Secure and protect magazines and ammunition boxes from possible damage.
4. Put the lockable hard-sided case with the weapon and the ammo/magazines into a cheap, non-descript bag - with clear labeling outside and inside - for checking in. The labeling should be limited to:
   • Your Name
   • Your Cell Phone - if you have one, or your home phone if you do not
   • Your personal email address - if you have one
   • NO ADDRESSES, JOB TITLES, ORGANIZATIONS SHOULD BE INDICATED
5. Other stuff - like shampoo, mouthwash, toothpaste, etc, could be in this checked bag also.
6. Check this non-descript bag at the airport. Have the rules for the airline in hand.
7. Make sure you have the keys to the lockable hard-sided case with you and you alone (Per Federal Regulations § 1540.111 Carriage of weapons, explosives, and incendiaries by individuals - http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...v8&view=text&node=49:9.1.3.5.9.2.10.6&idno=49) at all times. You will have to open the lockable hard-side case to demonstrate to the airline that the weapon(s) are not loaded at check in, and if the TSA wants to see.
8. Have the serial number(s) and descriptions of your weapons on you, so if they "disappear" you can report the loss/theft to the airline, the FAA Regional Office, and the ATF Regional Office immediately.

Other things to consider:

1. Check www.handgunlaw.us to determine:
   • If you can possess the weapon at all your stops.
   • Where and how you can carry at all your stops.
   • What are the deadly force rules in each state you are visiting.
2. Have a copy of the Don Young Transportation Letter on hand - http://www.anjrpc.org/DefendingYourRights/us letter.pdf. This covers changing modes of travel - car to plane to car - in a single journey.

 

[TallPine]

Doesn't the suitcase (bag, etc) have to be locked as well ???

 

[Roman756]

Doesn't the suitcase (bag, etc) have to be locked as well ??

Yes.

 

[TallPine]

So therefore, you need a hard-sided lockable suitcase in addition to the hard-sided lockable gun case, nach eil?

 

[obiwan1]

Your SIG factory box should be fine if it can be locked - or you can padlock it. I'd buy the ammo in AZ.

 

[Roman756]

So therefore, you need a hard-sided lockable suitcase in addition to the hard-sided lockable gun case, nach eil?

You are fast!Yes,according to my brother who works for AA if that guncase is in a outer suitcase.

 

[JerryM]

The suitcase in which the gun and hard case are does not have to be locked. I never lock the suitcase, but do lock the gun case.

Regards,
Jerry

 

[Roman756]

I suggest checking with the individual airline for their rules.

 

[El Tejon]

Learn from others, Check your range bag before flying: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=209034

Good luck with your class. Please tell us about it.

 

[Roman756]

AA rules:Transporting Firearms And Ammunition




Effective with tickets purchased on/after September 24, 2007, American Airlines will no longer accept firearms in checked baggage to/from the United Kingdom (except for military/government personnel with proper documentation).

The information shown below pertains to travel within the United States only (unless stated otherwise). For information on the transportation of firearms and ammunition to international destinations, please contact Reservations.

General Information
Firearms and ammunition are accepted as checked baggage only.
Firearms will only be accepted if unloaded and in a locked, hard-sided container only (for example - rifle case).
Ammunition must be packed in its original packaging. Loose ammunition or clips will not be accepted.
Firearms may not be checked curbside.
No one under 18 years of age may check a firearm.
Pellet and BB guns are not considered firearms, and therefore, do not require any special handling or documentation.

Allowance
Maximum per case is 3 rifles/shotguns or 5 pistols/revolvers, 5 lbs. ammunition, shooting mat, noise suppressors, and tools. There is no limit on the amount of cases allowed.
Ammunition is limited to 11 lbs. per passenger. Excess baggage charges may apply to each gun case if it is in excess of the free baggage allowance and/or oversize/overweight.

http://www.aa.com/aa/i18nForward.do?p=/travelInformation/baggage/firearms.jsp

 

[Feud]

When flying with a firearm, I prefer the lighter weapons in my collection. Less weight keeps my arms from tiring so quickly...

Oh, that's a bad one...

 

[def4pos8]

I'd suggest that you own/operate your own aircraft like I do but that's more than most folks can chew. However, it does have its advantages. I don't like to fly as cargo. I carry my Ruger 345 in a GI chest holster as I am "security" at most of the strips I visit and just don't have to think about the TSA.

Good luck with your airline experience!

 

[UKarmourer]

Effective with tickets purchased on/after September 24, 2007, American Airlines will no longer accept firearms in checked baggage to/from the United Kingdom (except for military/government personnel with proper documentation)

Well I guess if I decide to come to the states hunting I'll have to hire a rifle/ Shotgun then

 

[disneyd]

I've read the rules from a few different airlines and all are vague on this point: Can the ammo be in the hardcase with the firearm? Can it otherwise be in the checked (softside) baggage as long as it's in the manufacturer's box? Does it have to be in a separate locked hardside container?

From looking at past threads, it seems like various TSA and/or airline agents have had extremely different ideas. I've heard of people being told they had to do any of the scenarios listed above.

Also, is the airline responsible for loss of the firearm? I recall someone saying that some airlines disclaim responsibility if it's lost.

To the original poster: Be sure to print a copy of the airlines' rules from their website and a copy of the federal rules and bring them with you. Might save you a lot of hassle from an uninformed airline or TSA employee.

 

[Agent 006 &7/8]

Can the ammo be in the hardcase with the firearm? Can it otherwise be in the checked (softside) baggage as long as it's in the manufacturer's box?

Yes for MOST airlines. It must be in the "original" factory box or simmilar type (the rounds must be seperated from each other). Loaded magazines OUTSIDE of the firearm are OK with MOST airlines if the magazine tops are taped to secure the rounds in the mags. The usual limit is 11 lbs (I've checked 1000 rounds of .223 with no proplems).

Does it have to be in a separate locked hardside container?

Not for most airlines. But check with your carrier.

Also, is the airline responsible for loss of the firearm?

Usually falls under the "checked luggage liability" provision on the ticket jacket. Usually a max of $1250 total unless extra insurance is purchased.

From looking at past threads, it seems like various TSA and/or airline agents have had extremely different ideas.

Yup. Some have VERY different ideas... fortunately THEY don't get to make the rules.

Carry a printout of the airlines firearms policy and a printout of TSA's regulations. Both are available online. If you can, escort your bag with the firearm to the screening point to be available to answer any questions. Also, per TSA and the FAA the TSA locks are OK for locking a fireams case. If the TSA determines that a case must be opened and they can not reach you the non-TSA locks will be cut and then the case will not be allowed onboard the flight. If you run into a problem, stay calm and polite. Ask to speak to a supervisor (airline or TSA as needed) and, calmly, explain the issue while refering to the printed policy. Many airline ticket agents haven't run into a lot of checked firearms and so just assume whatever instead of checking their airline's policy on their computer. Most TSA are aware of the checked firearms regulations but there are a few who think that they are SkyCops and their word/opinion is law. I'm a captain for a major airline and have checked pistols, rifles and a fair amount of ammo many times and following the above I've had very little difficulty.

 

[sonyhoppes]

I just flew US Air and United over the holidays. I did not need a locked hard sided suitcase since the pistol was locked in its own hard case. I did lock the soft sided suitcase as a general precaution. I had several boxes of ammo, too, and they didn't care or even ask about it. I guess the only thing that mattered was if the bag came under the total weight limit. I think it was 55 lbs per checked bag or something.

One nice thing about the TSA x-raying the bags with firearms is I didn't ever once have to demonstrate that the firearm was unloaded. I used to HATE that when they made me do it in front of everyone at the check-in counter. Now, the TSA can see if it's loaded or not via x-ray and bust you accordingly if it is.

 

[TallPine]

What keeps a baggage handler from just stealing the locked case with your handgun inside from unlocked or soft-side baggage???

I may be flying to Texas and driving a car back to MT, and I would really like to have a firearm for the drive home. I'm just not sure if it's worth the hassle and risk and expense considering I have to buy a hard case and new luggage. Also, there will be at least two plane changes involved and more than one airline company.

 

[Winchester 73]

What keeps a baggage handler from just stealing the locked case with your handgun inside from unlocked or soft-side baggage???

Excellent point.This is why you want the locked outer hardsided case ,whether the airline requires it or not.Ortherwise nothing,as Tall Pine points out,can stop the theft of your gun case.
Lets use our noodle when flying with firearms.

 

[sonyhoppes]

I'm pretty sure the airlines keep a tight watch over bags with firearms. I was told that the absolute best way to ensure a bag does NOT get lost is to check a firearm in it. If that bag/firearm goes missing, it will create a LOT of trouble/hassle for the airline since the TSA and FBI will get involved at that point. The FBI becomes involved if the flight crosses state lines, which most do. This was from someone who's with the FBI.

 

[SupernovaNole]

I'm confused about the locking your bag aspect of checking your guns. If you lock the hard case for the gun and the outer suitcase its contained in and you hold the only key...

What happens when TSA wants to open the bag for inspection? Do they pull you off the plane and request your key? Do they bolt cut the locks to gain access leaving you with damaged luggage?

I would guess that the likely hood that they would want to check your bag would go up with a firearms declaration. No?

How does that aspect work?

SupernovaNole

 

[WayneConrad]

The experts will chime in, I hope. What I've heard repeated over and over, though, is that you must retain the key. You can't hand it over, even to TSA. They can ask you to unlock the case, and that's alright.