FNH Five SeveN vs. Kel-Tec PMR 30

[CaliCoastie]

if you are looking for something for the wife, have her find a 22lr that fits her. unless she has huge hands she wont find the pmr confortable to shoot, my wife doesnt care for mine. my wife likes her buckmark, and glock 36, she has diecent size hands but doesnt like my xd40 or like i said my pmr30. btw 7.50 for 20rds of 5.7 is about what you can get a box of 50 22wmr for.

O and yes the pmr 30 is out, just not alot yet.

 

[Carter]

If you handload I'm sure the issue of crappy rounds for the 5.7 would be solved.

I personally don't care for the kel-tec.

And the fact that the 5.7 performed on par with other handguns does show that it is effective. I don't think it was meant to be the conan of pistol rounds.

 

[Girodin]

O and yes the pmr 30 is out, just not alot yet.

oh, it has been released like the RFB then?

 

[bigfatdave]

A light primer strike or a true dud?

The last one I remember ... What would you call a round that wouldn't go off after three solid primer strikes, the last one in a different gun?
Both were reliable guns, and yet solid dents in the primer yielded no bang-bang at all.

I've had others, both pistol and rifle, none were ancient ammo or abused/neglected ammunition.

Failures happen, learn how to deal with it if you're ever shooting for serious reasons. TRB works, regardless of priming methods.

 

[Girodin]

I saw that Impact guns has them listed for $299.99 (none in stock). Impact always has higher (often significantly higher) prices than I am able to find things for else where. If the PMR is reliable and has half decent durability then it might be something to pick up since its so cheap. I'm scared it might have as horrible a trigger as every other kel tec I have shot though. It will need to be functional since there is no way I'd keep it based on its looks, personally I find it rather fugly. However, if it works I can get over that, particularly considering the price.

 

[CaliCoastie]

llike i said they are out just not alot. the one i have has been very reliable once i figured out how to load the mag. yes its fugly, and no she doesnt look better in person. o and mine has a great trigger.

 

[bigfatdave]

I'm scared it might have as horrible a trigger as every other kel tec I have shot though.

Why would it be?
The MPR30 isn't a double-action gun with a heavy trigger for "safety".

 

[Girodin]

Why would it be?
The MPR30 isn't a double-action gun with a heavy trigger for "safety".

Neither is the Sub2K and yet it has a just plain terrible trigger, its the one thing I truly dislike about that gun.

Interesting on all your dud center fire rounds. I have shot countless thousands (probably tens of thousands) of center fire rounds and I can think of 2 times I had issues. Both were with wolf ammo and both times the primer basically looked destroyed, I'm not sure what went on with those rounds. I experience dud rounds regularly with rim fire rounds, but much much less often with more expensive ammo as opposed to bulk boxes.

Failures happen, learn how to deal with it if you're ever shooting for serious reasons.

I wholeheartedly concur with that, clearing malfunctions is a basic skill set that anyone carrying a gun should build and continue to improve. Of course I would still rather have something less likely to require doing an immediate action drill than something more likely. When split seconds count a click followed by tap rack bang only takes a second.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

In response to DmL5:

13 were killed.

Thank you for correcting me.

The Fort Hood shooter simply sprayed bullets randomly into a crowd.

According to the victims he was “very deliberate”.

This is utterly irrelevant. Even the victims themselves attributed this to adrenaline, and similar stories can be found from survivors of the Virginia Tech massacre, where the shooter used 9mm hollow-points.

It’s not irrelevant if one is considering 5.7x28mm/FiveNSeven for defense. Its wounding effects are mild – comparable to .22 Magnum HP fired from a rifle.

Cite a source outside of ambiguous forum posts. For example, a news report detailing where the subjects were shot, and how the bullets "failed" to stop them.

No problem. I encourage everyone to call JSO and inquire for oneself - To reach the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office Public Information Office, please call (904) 630-2133.

 

[DmL5]

According to the victims he was “very deliberate”.

The Fort Hood shooter fired on a large group of soldiers. He was definitely "very deliberate" in targeting soldiers over civilians. In fact, the witness that made that statement was a civilian and he said his life was spared by the shooter, along with the lives of several other civilians with him.

http://www.dentonrc.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/nation/stories/102010dntexhasan.1a6e2efb6.html

Even the female police officer's life was spared when she was down; the shooter only kicked her pistol out of reach and walked away.

It’s not irrelevant if one is considering 5.7x28mm/FiveNSeven for defense.

Yes, it is irrelevant. See some of the stories from survivors of the Virginia Tech massacre; or the story I linked by a soldier whose arm was severely damaged by RPG shrapnel without his even being aware of it. You will find that such experiences are extremely common in dangerous situations, especially in cases where the victim is intently focused on some action such as escaping a rampage shooter, dragging other victims to safety, etc.

Its wounding effects are mild – comparable to .22 Magnum HP fired from a rifle.

This comparison might have been valid; except in all likelihood, you cannot even point to any case where someone was shot and wounded with .22 WMR from a rifle. In reality, .22 WMR from a rifle is capable of penetrating 9.1 inches while expanding to a surprising .48 inches.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/Page2548.htm

This example falls a few inches short of the FBI penetration threshold, but in terms of expansion it is hardly "mild" in comparison to a typical 9mm loading. Meanwhile, EA 5.7x28mm civilian cartridges (from the Five-seveN pistol) push heavier projectiles at higher velocities, as independently chronographed by various sources.

No problem. I encourage everyone to call JSO and inquire for oneself - To reach the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office Public Information Office, please call (904) 630-2133.

That is a clever ruse, but this phone number is not the source of your claim. Everything you posted was taken from ambiguous forum posts at Lightfighter. As long as you are simply reposting what you read elsewhere in forum posts, you might as well not post it at all. Let alone, ask for someone else to confirm it for you.

As I said previously, there is only one semi-detailed source on the shooting(s) in question (a local Jacksonville news article) and it does not agree with anything you have said on the subject.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

In reality, .22 WMR from a rifle is capable of penetrating 9.1 inches while expanding to a surprising .48 inches.

It's performance is inadequate to reliably damage vitals in a human sized target.

That is a clever ruse, but this phone number is not the source of your claim.

You can debate a "clever ruse" or you can personally contact JSO and verify for yourself their experience with 5.7x28mm in officer involved shootings and have them explain their rationale for removing it from service.

 

[benderx4]

Given these two guns, I think it's a no-brainer. Money aside, the FN is a much higher quality gun than the KelTec. Shooting the 5.7 is a total blast - figure on spending some big bucks on your outings. I love my FN - VERY different handgun than anything else in my safe.

 

[DmL5]

It's performance is inadequate to reliably damage vitals in a human sized target.

Compared to EA 5.7x28mm cartridges fired out of the Five-seveN pistol, it's also a lighter projectile and produces significantly less velocity.

You can debate a "clever ruse" or you can personally contact JSO and verify for yourself their experience with 5.7x28mm in officer involved shootings

You made the claim. It's your obligation, not mine, to back up what you said. In all likelihood you haven't actually called the number yourself, so go ahead and call it and get specific details (number of shots fired, hit locations, intermediate barriers, etc) from each of these supposed incidents; then post them here.

have them explain their rationale for removing it from service

I have no problem believing Jacksonville, FL SWAT removed the P90 from service due to supposed "poor performance." The ambiguous Lightfighter posts said as much. What those posts (and your posts) don't say is where the subjects were shot, how many times they were shot, what intermediate barriers the bullets went through, etc, etc. Without these details, the accounts (even if they were actually verifiable) are meaningless. Perception is not reality.

For example, a certain Pennsylvania police department had two different shootings in 2006 where the subjects had to be shot in excess of 10 times each with .40 S&W to be stopped. In the first incident, it was touted that all .40 S&W bullets penetrated less than 1 inch into the subject. In the second incident, multiple rounds failed to penetrate the subject's car seat. The police department was disappointed with the bullet's performance and was considering switching from .40 S&W to .45 ACP handguns. By your flawed logic, their dissatisfaction with .40 S&W's performance would mean, regardless of details, that it is a poor performer; that it consistently penetrates less than 1 inch in human tissue; that it is incapable of penetrating a car seat; etc.

http://concealedcarryholsters.org/fbi-analysis-on-pa-police-shootout/