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Footage of 3-year-old with handgun on Today show

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Sportcat, Jul 27, 2004.

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  1. Sportcat

    Sportcat Member

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    Saw it this morning. Parents are "drinking beer" and target shooting while the 3-year-old finds a pistol (never stated if loaded or not) and plays with it for a few seconds.

    Footage was taken a by a neighbor who stated "we haven't spoken in years." Neighbor also said that "there are several red flags over at that home."

    Parents had kids taken away by authorities.

    While I agree something should happen to the parents for not monitoring their child, and drinking while shooting, to me this appears to be a neighbor who is holding a grudge and was looking for something to get her neighbors in trouble.

    Found a link to another site with the footage here: http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=2077307
     
  2. Gunsnrovers

    Gunsnrovers Member

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    From the news I've seen and what's been posted here and the other like I saw earlier, sounds like this parents could be the problem. Easier for them to blame the neighbor with the video you don't like for turning you in then to admit you screwed up. The neighbor may have been trying to get them in trouble, but not knowing the neighbors story, maybe the parents are ones who instigate it.

    Drinking and guns don't mix. That's a powerful theme here and rightly so. Toddlers and guns don't mix either. Getting your children to understand how to safely enjoy firearms is a good thing if they want to participate, but a 3 year old handling a firearm is neglect. In many states, kids and guns is a crime.

    I'm looking forward to the day when my 3 year old little guy gets to go to the range with dad, but for know he's limited to helping dad clean them. Also noted the child didn't appear to have ears or eyes on. :(

    Jeff
     
  3. CAS700850

    CAS700850 Member

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    I used to be involved in prosecuting caes of child neglect and abuse. While, onoccassion, there would be a liberal social worker who saw allwong a child to handle and/or fire a gun as neglectful, I can proudly say that those claims never went anywhere close to the court system.

    With that said, allow me to say the I hate people like this, because they make it all the more difficult for responsible gun owners to pursue their interests. Stories like this, and especially the video, play right into the hands of gun control advocates, and gives them a powerful and emotional image to support the cause. Can't you hear someone playing the tape, explainig why their new pet bill should be passed probiting any person from owning/possessing more than one firearm, as the video shows that no person can properly secure more than one firearm, and keep the children safe?
     
  4. Sportcat

    Sportcat Member

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    Matt Lauer of the Today show described the footage as "graphic and shocking" and warned parents before the story aired.
     
  5. middy

    middy Member

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    While I hate nosy neighbors and meddling government agencies, I have to think that they did the right thing in this case. People like this give gun owners a bad name.
     
  6. sturmruger

    sturmruger Member

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    That is pretty sad. We wonder why we still have adults mishandling firearms. It is probably because when they were children they watched their parents do stupid stuff, or they were allowed to do dumb things as kids so when they are adults they don't seem so dumb.
     
  7. 2nd Amendment

    2nd Amendment member

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    Don't care. It was absolutely none of the neighbor's business and the cretin had no right to film anything on someone elses property. Before you say this is an exception, there are no exceptions. It was an invasion of privacy. If you excuse it because this time it happened to, maybe, catch something dangerous then don't complain about it when someone catches you doing something, anything, in fact.

    I hope the parents are well off financially and, when all is said and done, I hope they spend a great deal of time and money making certain the neighbor serves as an example for others not to nose in where you don't belong.
     
  8. Blue Line

    Blue Line Member

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    well if its wrong to video, photgraph etc then it would also be illegal to LOOK at your neighbor. If you don't want anyone to see how stupid you can be with a firearm put a high privacy fence up. What the gun owning parents did is not safe firearms handling. Fortunely the kid didn't blow his head off on camera.
    I agree with everyone else here - images like this give us all a bad name.
     
  9. sendec

    sendec member

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    I respectfully disagree for the following reasons:

    1) If the neighbor who taped the incident did not trespass on the defendent's property there is no violation of privacy. The open field doctrine and the plain view doctrine would apply to governmental agents, and may shield a citizen from any unearned liability. I doubt that they could argue a reasonable expectation of privacy for an activity that took place out in the open.

    2) It IS the neighbor's business - they have an ethical obligation to take appropriate measures to shield a child from harm. As a detective I investigated a case where a neighbor overheard the mother of a young child yelling at her husband to stop molesting the girl (I am not going to use the exact language or decribe the act that she discovered him doing, except to say that the circumstances would have earned him a mandatory life sentence). I was furious because the neighbor waited several hours to report the incident, instead of doing so immediately. I cannot see a moral justification for ignoring a heinous crime like this because "it's none of anyones business" though the Kitty Genovese case demonstrates that all too often people will not get involved.
     
  10. jdkelly

    jdkelly Member

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    I'm not a laywer, but...

    I'm not a laywer, but I don't think there is any law that prohibits filming anything out in public, as in this case.

    They are out in the open, I'ts not like they were inside their house being video taped through the slits in the blinds.



    Respectfully,

    jdkelly
     
  11. 2nd Amendment

    2nd Amendment member

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    Why is it that increasingly these days people feel the need to str-e-e-e-e-tch to justify their stance? Comparing "looking" in your neighbor's direction to deliberately videotaping their actions is an absurd and non-sensical transparency. And what does it matter whether the image reflects badly? What is your point? Whether it reflects negatively or positively is immaterial. It should have never existed.

    As for the kid A) We have no idea if the gun was loaded. B) We have no idea if the kid would have actually harmed anyone. C) If we're going to be truly pragmatic about this, the story of one dead kid would have far less "legs" than this piece of wrongly acquired videotape does. Just Darwin in action, next story please. That's cold but it is also very true.

    The actions of the neighbor were wrong. And those actions have far greater potential repercussions, especially these days, than the (assumed)stupidity of the parents. If you truly disagree then how about I move in next to some of you and begin to film everything you do? Really want to bet that sooner or later I don't get vid of you doing something immensely stupid/thoughtless and/or illegal(whether you're aware of the law or not)?
     
  12. J Miller

    J Miller Member

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    Me thinks this is another case of total hysterical over reaction. Much ado over nothing.

    Here's a pic of me when I was wee lil one playing with a gun.

    I don't know why but my pic wont download. Just picture a 5 YO with a S&W Chiefs Special in his hand and grin on his face. Nobodys freekin business but ours. Like 2nd amendment says: People should mind their own damn business. I hope the parrents win against these busybodies and sue the crap out of them.

    Yes boys and girls that IS a real gun. And as you can see mom and dad (he took the pic) were both present. And if I remember correctly, dad was known to drink a bit. Now to you hysterical types, go and arrest my parrents, go ahead I dare you.

    J:fire:e
     
  13. 2nd Amendment

    2nd Amendment member

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    As for the other two of you, fine. Whatever. I hope something similar happens to you someday. I hope I am around to hear about it. As for myself, I moved out in the sticks so as not to have to tolerate intrusive busybodies with nothing better to do than snoop. if I had to endure something like this I assure you I would spend pretty much everything turning this neighbors life into something less than pleasant.

    Mind your own business, people. Or don't EVER whine when someone else minds it for you.
     
  14. J Miller

    J Miller Member

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    This should have been with post above.

    Still won't download my pic. Sorry.

    Joe
     
  15. Sylvilagus Aquaticus

    Sylvilagus Aquaticus Member

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    I suppose that when my father taught me how to shoot and began my training in responsible firearms handling....when I was four years old...means I was abused as a child, huh?

    Of course, there was never any alcohol involved...my folks don't drink, at least not inappropriately, and it was all done prior to the creation of inexpensive video recording equipment with long lenses.

    No wonder I just want to be left the hell alone.

    Regards,
    Rabbit.
     
  16. PBIR

    PBIR Member

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    There is nothing responsible about going downrange to check your targets while your 3year old kid stays with the weapons unattended. It is the very epitomy of irresponsible firearm handling.
     
  17. Gunsnrovers

    Gunsnrovers Member

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    There is absolutely NO relationship between a 5 year old being supervised handling a pistol, a 4 year old being taught to shoot, and a 3 year old left alone with guns while his parents are drinking beer and shooting targets.

    The two above examples are totally irrelevent.
     
  18. jdkelly

    jdkelly Member

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    ...did you have problems with your neighbor(s)....?

    If I'm stupid enough to do something embarrassing in public, then I'd deserve ridicule. I'm a big boy I don't need to get even.


    I guess that's where we are different, I think that every second and every penny I'd spend plotting revenge on someone is time and money truly wasted. You can't get either back, and all you have to show for it is hate.

    I was wondering, did you have problems with your neighbor(s) in the city?


    Respectfully,

    jdkelly
     
  19. TonyB

    TonyB Member

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    Gun owners like this make us all look bad......I believe in a live and let live ,mind your own business way of life too.....but these people need to be slapped.I've been around guns sense I was a todler too,but we NEVER mixed alcohol and guns......these people are a-holes...:fire:
     
  20. Gunsnrovers

    Gunsnrovers Member

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    It's all fun and games to scream about your rights, but it's a down right pisser when someone mentions that other nasty R word. Responsibility.
     
  21. Girlwithagun

    Girlwithagun Member

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    First, for the record, I believe the parents were at fault for not teaching their child not to pick up a gun without their permission and obviously the child was not handling the gun properly. But....

    There do not seem to be enough facts to find out what really happened and I am surprised that people would form strong opinions without knowing all the facts. Especially in a group of gun owners who are often criticized or unjustly accused. Was this gun loaded? The parents say no. How far away were the parents? Were they really drinking alcohol? You all know all well as I do that the media stretches the truth and even flat out makes stuff up to suit their agenda. So, all I can see wrong with this picture without further evidence is the fact that they did not teach their child not to touch a gun without permission. This is assuming that the parents did not give permission, and if they did, they should have taught the child how to properly handle a gun first.

    I was also shocked to hear people in this thread and the other one of this subject talking like it was horrible that a 3 year old should be handling a gun in the first place. Kids should never be underestimated- this goes both ways. My 3 year old has been out shooting with us (with eyes and ears of course) and my husband has helped him shoot a .22 rifle (with my son doing some of the holding and my husband pulling the trigger). He has been drilled since he could understand about gun safety. He knows the basic rules (if you see a gun, don't touch, tell mommy or daddy) and has been tested a re-tested and never once failed. He also asks sometimes to see my carry gun and I'll tell him ok but we have to make it safe first so he'll tell me to take out the magazine and pull back the slide. Then I will let him hold it and he knows to not put his finger on the trigger and to not point it at anyone. Now, my 2 year old is not at that point yet and therefore not allowed to hold a gun on his own.

    If the news report would say tomorrow "Neighbor witnesses 3 year old picking up a gun, parents have arsenal of weapons", they may just be talking about me. And to that, I would say, put your binoculars away, I choose education over ignorance. :neener:
     
  22. CentralTexas

    CentralTexas Member

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    HEY!

    When did all the "For the Children" types join this forum?

    This is only an issue because it's a GUN, quit thinking like the other side.
    EVERY day I see kids not in car seats or playing in front yards with parents too far away to prevent them from running into the path of a car etc.

    Yeah those parents should have been more careful BUT this is only an issue because it's a GUN.

    Do you see Matt and Katie bringing on video a neighbor took of kids riding bikes without helmets?????

    Perspective folks!

    CT
     
  23. sumpnz

    sumpnz Member

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    A) What's the FIRST rule of gun safety. All together now: Treat every gun as though it were loaded at all times.

    I don't care if you could tell from the video that the mag had been dropped and the slide was locked back. No 3 year old can know how to personally verify that the gun is unloaded, at least none that I've ever been around.

    B) Immaterial to the issue. Do we let drunk people drive just becuase they might get home safely?

    C) That is disturbing on more levels than I can mention without violating The High Road code of conduct.
     
  24. calvinike

    calvinike Member

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    Come on. We all know the only reason this made the news is that it involved a child and a gun. This is red meat for the media. It never would have been aired if it was a video of child riding a bike without a helmet.

    Regardless;

    1. Shooting and drinking do not mix.
    2. Gun Safety Rule #1 - All guns are loaded.

    These parents, and I use the term loosely are idiots. They give all gun owners a bad name and play directly into the "anti's" stereotypes. There is absolutley no defense for their behavior.
     
  25. 2nd Amendment

    2nd Amendment member

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    Alrighty then!

    Bumped to the next page, just cause I can.
     
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