For the children...

[HBK]

I just found out that I am going to be the father of a boy this summer. This will change my home defense tactics somewhat. I figure that my present methods will work at least a year. What do you guys with toddlers do for home defense? How do you allow the kid to handle the noise if you had to pull the trigger. Do you put muffs on him or small ear plugs? Defending your home is important, but when you have a child on the way it takes on a whole new meaning...
Also, what is a good age to start the kid on firearms? I'd like him to be proficient at 6 if possible.

 

[AJ Dual]

Congratulations! We're finding out the sex of our twins, due in late June, this Thursday. Don't care if it's boy/gir, boy/boy, or girl/girl as long as at least one of them has some interest in going to the range with ol' Dad now and again... So I've had some thoughts on how I'm going to organize exposure to shooting as well.

I'd start him on a 6mm Airsoft BB gun as soon as he was able to fire it, (with you helping hold it, etc. remember Eye Safety!) shoot paper boxes and cups in the garage or basment with a loose hanging blanket for a backstop. Start stressing the four rules as soon as he's able to speak in sentences. Then progress to an airgun, (If you have property or a basment large enough to permit it.) and once he displays complete proficiency and adherence to the rules, I'd get him one of the youth .22's like the Crickett, Henry Mini-Bolt, or even one of the cheap Romanian .22 milsurp trainers and lop a few inches off the stock, saving the chunk for later when he grows.

I'd "gun proof" the kids by having a 3 pronged approach.

- A gunsafe, or at minimum, a Homak style gun cabinet. No one but you knows the combination, (make it something with a combo if at all possible, as keys can be stolen by a curious teenager) if the wife is not interested in operating the safe, leave a copy of the number with a trusted relative (make sure there's no notes as to who has the safe or where it is, should a burglar riffle through that relatives belongings.) If you can only afford a key type lockbox, keep the key on your keyring only, so it's allways with you, and leave the spare with the relative.

- Electronic gunvault pistol box for the bome defense piece that's left loaded. A police cruiser style shotgun lock/clamp if you plan on keeping a long-gun for home defense as well.

- Tell the child repeatedly you'll show him, and let him handle any firearm anytime he wishes, all he has to do is ask you. This will remove any mystery or "forbidden fruit aspect" from them. If Jr. wants to have you open the safe once a day to fondle your AR, or 1911 etc. every day for a month, do it for him. If he asks you when it's not possible i.e. out for dinner, at bedtime, remember his request and do it the next day.

Once he's progressed to the .22, keep in mind that children have a very different sense of time than adults do. An hour car-ride, or even fifteen minutes of watching you shoot while he just sits there can seem literally like days to a kid. If you take him shooting, you're taking him shooting, not both of you. Spend your time watching and coaching him. Start out using reactive targets like baloons, tin cans, old fruit, or metal plate spinners, to add excitment. Start out with targets close at 7 yards then slowly move them out to build his confidence.

If you need to practice your own marksmanship, test out another gun etc. make a separate trip to the range for yourself. Focus on the child and his shooting. As soon as boredom sets in with him, pack up and leave. If this means you drive an hour to the range, or the backwoods family farm etc, only to have him shoot 50 rounds before he's done, so be it. I probably wouldn't start shooting my own firearms alongside him while he shoots independantly until he's 10 years old or so, unless he was participating in some kind of organized youth shooting event.

As to noise damage from a gunshot or three in a home defense scenario, I don't think there's anything you can do about it. Unless a baby or toddler is within a few feet of the muzzle, the hearing damage is unlikely to be permanant, and certainly worth it to eliminate a threat. I doubt you'd have time to do anything about protecting his hearing, much less your own, if there was a situation.

 

[JamisJockey]

I say as soon as they can hold conversations (between 3-4, right?) start teaching them the safety rules. About age 4 they are probably ready for airsoft or a bbgun. 6 is probably a worty goal if you start right.
My little monster is just over 5 months old now.

Anyone know if drool will contribute to rust?

 

[HBK]

Thanks for the great information. I will make sure and put it to use.

 

[clubsoda22]

My dad stored his 1911 in a locked draw next to his bed when i was a kid and still does (even though i have more guns than he does now). The draw had a 1 way lock. When unlocked, you could not remove the key. At night when he went to bed he'd unlock it. in the morning, when he had to go to work, he'd have to lock it to retreive his keys (that way you never forget to lock it. If the gun was needed, and the key unavailable, you could just grab the handle and throw your weight into it. It was very tamper evident. The only way you could get to dads gun was by busting the lock, and if the lock was busted there better be a dead intruder in the kitchen. If i wanted to see the gun, all i'd have to do is ask.

Dads 1911 is now locked in my draw awaiting a replacement roll pin for the rear sight from colt. My Taurus PT92 has temporarily taken its place.

 

[ReadyontheRight]

Congratulations!

I recommend the larger Gun Vault on a high shelf in your bedroom for your defensive pistol(s) and a safe in the basement for any other guns.

I really can't imagine a defensive scenario where I'd put hearing protection on myself or my child if there was an intruder in the house, but definitely include hearing and eye protection in general firearms training.

 

[KarlG]

All of my guns are locked. All my 5 year old has to do is ask to touch a gun and I will drop what I am doing to make it happen. I don't want any tabu associated with guns or gun handling. Each time he wants to touch a gun I go throug the "rules" and narrate as I check the gun to ensure it is unloaded. At gun stores he will tell me I need to "put you finger in the breach" to make sure there is not a bullet in there. At this age I am always hanging over him when he has a gun and redirecting the muzzle, again narrating as to why I directed the muzzle away for XXX.

My defense gun is always loaded and locked in a gun vault within reach of my bed. If I need to pull the trigger in defense, the noise will only be consequential. Once I had a child, his safety became #1. The safe room in the house is now dependant on his location, and not necessarily "fixed" anymore. The number of escape/retreat/ defend scenarios that I have planned has increased exponentially because I don't have as much control over who is where in the house. Also when planning scenarios before, I could assume my wife would make sound decisions of her own. I cannot make the same assumptions of my five year old (yet).

As far as when to start them shooting, the earlier the better. I think my son is just becoming responsible enough and has good enough motor skills to do well. Now, I just hope he has an interest. If not... oh well.

 

[JPM70535]

Excellent suggestions and certainly the bare minimum to insure that your kids make it to adulthood without having a firearms related incident (accident).

The wife and I raised 2 boys (11 years apart) in a home filled with firearms. Most were and are kept in the safe unloaded, the exception being my HD weapon (s). I spent 20+ years in LE and my duty weapon was taken off along with it's gunbelt and hung in the bedroom closet next to my uniform.
I was subject to 3AM callouts for TAs or other incidents with immediate response being required.

Both my boys exhibited the normal fascination with guns, especially the 357 duty revolver. My solution aside from the usual methods was a simple one, or at least it worked for me. As each of them reached the age where they could conceivably pull the trigger or otherwise cause the weapon to discharge, (around age 3 or 4 IIRC) At that time I took each of them to the range and let them fire the 357, loaded with a full house 125 JHP while helping them hold it up. The reaction was the same in both cases. They never exhibited any further interest in handling it untill they got to be teenagers.

Of course they were taught firearms safety and had the usual BB guns and 22 rifles under supervision. I just felt better knowing they had no desire to handle my service revolver even though they knew its location.

And yes, when they had friends over, the revolver was locked in the safe with the others.

JPM

 

[safetybullet]

Ck this out www.safetybullet.com If you want something for home defense think about it for a minute, if your gun is in a vault and your home is broken into your screwed. If you have a safety bullet loaded your safe. I invented this as something I would want to use. It simple is the best of all worlds. Congradulations by the way

mike worley Inventor of the Safety Bullet

 

[thefitzvh]

No offense, but I think that safety bullet idea has tremendous problems. If your house is being invaded, you might not remember it, and you might get killed trying to re-enable your firearm.

 

[JamisJockey]

mike worley Inventor of the Safety Bullet

No offence

I fully mean to offend:
Mike, you're obviously here pushing your product. Your lack of posts on this board (a whopping 4) proves it. You dug up a two month old post, just to push your product. If I wanted shameless marketing, I'd watch TV.

Your product has been debated on this forum, and the general consensus is that its worthless. To disable a firearm not intended for home defense one can easily remove the bolt and keep it in a seperate location, or keep the ammo seperately. And the idea of keeping it in a home defense firearm is just retarded. Your product could easily turn someone's HD gun into a billy club, when they need a gun the most.
I give this one two thumbs down.
:banghead: