For the purposes of gun free school zones-

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Jeff H

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Where do you draw the line? Schools are everywhere. If you are in your car and you pass through a gun free school zone, I guess you are technically violating the law but how would you get around it?

What if you have to get out of your car in the gun free zone, maybe you get gas at the gas station next door to a school? Would locking up your gun in the car be acceptable or does it have to be unloaded as well? Is this really defined anywhere by statute?

In Ohio, my CCW relieves me from some restrictions, but I believe that doesn't apply to the neighboring states that I drive through often.
 
Good question. I always assumed these zones were put in place not so much for disarming folks, but for prosecution of those who would use a firearm in the commission of a crime on school property---sort of a "double whammy," if you will.
 
The 'issue' is that it is a Federal Law...
In my state,Alabama, it is perfectly legal for a visitor to CCW with a permit on school property when picking up or dropping off students but not at school functions such as ballgames. It becomes illegal only when harm is intended. Federal law or not it isn't enforced here unless harm has been done.
 
Posted by jimmyraythomason: In my state,Alabama, it is perfectly legal for a visitor to CCW with a permit on school property when picking up or dropping off students but not at school functions such as ballgames. It becomes illegal only when harm is intended.
True--if and only if the carrier has an Alabama permit.

Federal law or not it isn't enforced here unless harm has been done.
State authorities do not enforce Federal laws or decide when or whether to do so, nor will a trial on Federal charges be prosecuted by a district attorney or conducted in a county court.
 
State authorities do not enforce Federal laws or decide when or whether to do so, nor will a trial on Federal charges be prosecuted by a district attorney or conducted in a county court.
There ya go! So,the law is of non-effect unless the Feds press it OR the state also has such a law(Alabama doesn't).
 
There ya go! So,the law is of non-effect unless the Feds press it OR the state also has such a law (Alabama doesn't).
The Feds do enforce their law.

A better way to put it is that you're OK as long as you have a resident permit from Alabama.
 
A better way to put it is that you're OK as long as you have a resident permit from Alabama.

Which goes back to what I said in the OP,
In Ohio, my CCW relieves me from some restrictions, but I believe that doesn't apply to the neighboring states that I drive through often.

It would appear that if you drive through states other than your own and are in a GFSZ, you are probably in violation of the federal law because I can't find anything that would exempt you.
 
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the law says you can't be with in 1000' of a school UNLESS you have a state issued licence.

This is why you get a non resident licence instead of relying on reciprocity
 
Here is the excerpt from the statute, it seems pretty clear that if you are in another state, the gun must be locked up and unloaded, but it does seem that you can have it in your vehicle without getting into trouble with this law.

(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

(i) on private property not part of school grounds;

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

(iii) that is— (I) not loaded; and (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;


This is why you get a non resident licence instead of relying on reciprocity

A lot of states don't offer licenses for out of state residence. Looks like locked and unloaded is the only legal way. That sucks.
 
Here in OK high school students often have long guns in their pickups parked on school property. So long as the truck is locked and the gun is out of sight there is no problem.
 
VT (and a few others) do not require 'State Issued Permits', nor can you get one from the State of Vermont whatsoever...

Also under the "GFZ" statute:

Definitions

Title 18 U.S.C. §921(25) The term “school zone” means— (A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or (B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school. (26) The term “school” means a school which provides elementary or secondary education, as determined under State law.


Meaning even if it is legal to have a loaded weapon in your car in your state without a CCW, if you are not on "Private Property" it is 'technically' illegal to drive within 1000 feet of a school with the weapon loaded (or unlocked and empty even), under Federal law...

Whether your local LEOs are enforcing it or not is irrelevant to the fact that this silly law exists...
 
Whether your local LEOs are enforcing it or not is irrelevant to the fact that this silly law exists...
On the books only if it isn't being enforced such as the no swearing on Sunday Laws and other such...no carrying an ice cream cone in your back pocket kinda laws.
 
Then Congress added the whole "moved or affected interstate commerce" phrase into the Gun Free School Zone Act and re-enacted the law under the interstate commerce clause. The modified re-enacted statute has not been challenged yet.
Its been challenged, and upheld. Just not by the Supreme Court.


United States v. Danks, 221 F.3d 1037 (8th Cir. 1999).

In April 1998, Danks shot at a car, which was parked within 1,000 feet of an elementary school. After a federal grand jury charged Danks with possessing a firearm within 1,000 feet of a school, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 922(q)(2)(A), Danks moved to dismiss the indictment against him, arguing that section 922(q), as amended in 1996 (the amended Act), is an unconstitutional use of Congress's Commerce Clause power….
Before it was amended, section 922(q) (the original Act) had made it a federal crime “for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.” In United States v. Lopez, 514 U.S. 549, 115 S.Ct. 1624, 131 L.Ed.2d 626 (1995), the Supreme Court held that the original Act was unconstitutional as it exceeded Congress's Commerce Clause authority, noting that the original Act lacked a “jurisdictional element which would ensure, through case-by-case inquiry, that the firearm possession in question affect[ed] interstate commerce.” Id. at 561, 115 S.Ct. 1624.
Following Lopez, the original Act was amended to add a jurisdictional requirement. The amended Act now provides, “It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.” 18 U.S.C. § 922(q)(2)(A).
Danks argues that the amended Act is still unconstitutional under Lopez, because the mere insertion of a “commerce nexus” does not cure the original Act's defect. Reviewing the constitutionality of the amended Act de novo…we conclude that Danks's Lopez challenge fails. In United States v. Shelton, 66 F.3d 991, 992 (8th Cir.1995) (per curiam)…we upheld the constitutionality of 18 U.S.C. § 922(g) (criminalizing act of being felon in possession of firearm) against a Lopez challenge. We concluded that, because section 922(g) contains an interstate-commerce requirement, i.e., the firearm in question must have been shipped or transported in interstate commerce, the statute ensures through case-by-case inquiry that the firearm in question affects interstate commerce. See Shelton, 66 F.3d at 992; see alsoBates, 77 F.3d at 1104 (§ 922(g) contains express jurisdictional element that limits its reach to “ ‘a discrete set of firearm possessions that additionally have an explicit connection with or effect on interstate commerce’ ” (citing Lopez, 514 U.S. at 562, 115 S.Ct. 1624)); cf. United States v. Robinson, 62 F.3d 234, 236–37 (8th Cir.1995) (carjacking statute that addresses taking by force of cars that have been “transported, shipped, or received in interstate commerce” regulates item in interstate commerce, and includes requirement of case-by-case showing of nexus between intrastate activity and interstate commerce).
Like section 922(g), section 922(q) contains language that ensures, on a case-by-case basis, that the firearm in question affects interstate commerce. We hold that the amended Act is a constitutional exercise of Congress's Commerce Clause power.
Accordingly, we affirm.
 
Its been challenged, and upheld. Just not by the Supreme Court.


United States v. Danks, 221 F.3d 1037 (8th Cir. 1999).

Thank you for the info! Of course...an absolute complete abuse of the Commerce Clause. Basically with rulings like Wickard v. Filburn the US Supreme Court has said that EVERYTHING has an affect on interstate commerce and falls under the commerce clause and thus subject to Federal government regulation....so long as the magic words are used... :barf:
 
Thank you for the info! Of course...an absolute complete abuse of the Commerce Clause. Basically with rulings like Wickard v. Filburn the US Supreme Court has said that EVERYTHING has an affect on interstate commerce and falls under the commerce clause and thus subject to Federal government regulation....so long as the magic words are used...

Glad I could help! And I couldn't agree with you more. Looking closely at that Danks case above, you can actually see the expansion of the federal government’s powers in progress. Constitutional evolution before your very eyes!

The 8th Circuit in Danks states the applicable rule from Lopez is that there needs to be a “case-by-case inquiry that the firearm in question affect[ed] interstate commerce.” Danks, 221 F.3d 1037. In reality, the exact quote from Lopez was that there needs to be a “case-by-case inquiry that the firearm affects interstate commerce.” US v. Lopez, 514 U.S. 549, 561 (1995). See the difference? “Affects,” used in Lopez, means “to have an effect on,” or “make a difference to.” "Affected," by contrast, makes it completely different, putting it in the past tense (i.e. “had an effect on,” “made a difference to”). You may continue barfing now.
 
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careful folks, you might think too hard about the wisdom of congresscritters and other legislators who write/pass unenforceable laws

and selective enforcement isn't an acceptable way to mitigate a; stupid, unenforceable, nanny-state, do-nothing, feel-good, worthless, public-disarming ... embarrassment of a law
the law should be scrapped as vague and purposeless, not "just used as an enhancement for bad guys in court".
I don't trust elected or appointed officials to selectively enforce the way I want it selectively enforced, and even if they do it the way I like today their replacements might not ... write your congresscritter and tell them to scrap it
 
Good question. I always assumed these zones were put in place not so much for disarming folks, but for prosecution of those who would use a firearm in the commission of a crime on school property---sort of a "double whammy," if you will.
There are ways of writing laws to ensure that the possession of a gun during a crime committed at a school carries additional criminal penalties. The way it is currently written makes the possession of a gun itself a crime. It seems more geared toward getting someone convicted who they can't make a case for otherwise. That is a ridiculous bending of the spirit of the law.

bigfatdave said:
write your congresscritter and tell them to scrap it
You are going to have an extremely hard time convincing any politician to make a well-reasoned law which would be spun by their opposition as being "soft on crime", especially if it involves children. That shouldn't discourage people from doing so, however.
 
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