CPL and Gun Free School Zone

[R.Greene]

I need some help understanding the school gun free zones, specifically the part about being exempted if licensed by the state.

(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

Now, I'm reading this to mean "licensed to carry within the state, as in a CPL" and not "specifically licensed or permitted to carry on school grounds, as in LEO", correct?

I live 1,037ft by car (or 872ft as the crow flies) from an elementary school (one I have to pass by on the way to my house from anywhere, so effectively I'm inside the school zone as soon as I step off my property.

 

[Sam1911]

You have to have a carry permit or license from that state, your state's carry permit process must have some level of background checking, and that state must not prohibit its carriers from carrying on school grounds.

No you don't have to be a law enforcement officer. But no, having a permit doesn't automatically cover you.

 

[Red Wind]

Now, I'm reading this to mean "licensed to carry within the state, as in a CPL" and not "specifically licensed or permitted to carry on school grounds, as in LEO", correct?

You are reading that correctly.

Here is some history on the GFSZ Act.

The Gun Free School Zones Act of 1990 (18 U.S.C. § 922(q)) states:

(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

(i) on private property not part of school grounds;

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

(iii) that is— (I) not loaded; and (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;

(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;

(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or

(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.

(3) (A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall be unlawful for any person, knowingly or with reckless disregard for the safety of another, to discharge or attempt to discharge a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the person knows is a school zone. (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the discharge of a firearm—

(i) on private property not part of school grounds;

(ii) as part of a program approved by a school in the school zone, by an individual who is participating in the program;

(iii) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in a school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual; or

(iv) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity.

(4) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed as preempting or preventing a State or local government from enacting a statute establishing gun free school zones as provided in this subsection.

 

[Sam1911]

Looking at this: http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/washington.pdf

It appears that you would be good to go under WA law, but you'd want to investigate this further.

 

[MErl]

I have a general question on the gun free school law if the OP has been answered.

I live in a school zone. I never lock any cases when going to the range. Many times there is not an option to lock (soft case or even no case).

What is the legal status of my actions? Does that status change if I hold a CC permit?

I'm safe on my private property but that is an island in a hostile sea.
(CO if it matters, CC does not grant passage for k-12 here AFAIK)

 

[Sam1911]

You probably should put them in locked cases to be double sure.

However, to be realistic, this isn't something that I think is enforced the way it reads. I've never heard of anyone literally driving past a school (or from their home near a school) with unloaded firearms in a soft case in their trunk, being stopped, searched, found in violation of GFSZA and prosecuted. Unless your local cops are known for being extremely knowledgeable and heavy-handed about such transport rules, I don't think you have a lot to worry about.

Having said that...a cheap plastic hard case and cheap lock won't run you more than $30 probably.

 

[MErl]

In a locked case would be surely within the law as written. It sounds like your understanding is the same as mine as far as enforcement. It is enforced on school physical property not the entire 1000yd school zone. Lets hope that one does not start getting enforced to the letter.

Transport of loaded firearms is fine here for another little wrinkle. There are no issues with state laws just this GFSZ thing.

 

[Red Wind]

^A locked case in not required , certainly in the majority of states. The glove box ,console or as in Florida, a Papa John's pizza box or a Whitman's chocolate box,anything with a covering lid, will be of service!

Lets hope that one does not start getting enforced to the letter.

Good point. I discussed this with my CLEO a few months ago, who is also my close neighbor. He had never heard of this happening in his 20+ years as Chief.

 

[Sam1911]

Curious why you would say a locked case is "not required?"

The law does include the language:

(iii) that is— (I) not loaded; and (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

Do you know of a clarification or further legal precident that established that a locked container might be something other than a locked ....well, container?

I don't think a pizza box is going to cut it.

 

[Red Wind]

^ Here is Florida Law. Yes, Sam, a pizza box with a lid will do just fine!

RV/Car Carry Without A Permit/License
790.
25
Lawful Ownership, Possession, and Use of Firearms and Other Weapons
(5)
Possession i
n Private Conveyance

Notwithstanding subsection
(2), it is lawful and is not a violation
of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self
-
defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the fire
arm
or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein
contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance
when such firearm is being carried fo
r a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize
the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally
construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and o
ther weapons, including
lawful self
-
defense as provided in s. 776.012.
790.001
Definitions.
--
As
Used in This Chapter, Except Where
the Context Otherwise Requires:
(17)
"Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped
in a holster; in a
gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid
or cover to be opened for access.

 

[bikemutt]

I'm in the same position as the OP, I have to drive past one of three schools to go anywhere.

That said the only loaded gun I ever have in my possession while driving is a concealed pistol which I do have a license to carry. Range guns are always locked in the trunk which I'm guessing qualifies as a locked container.

 

[Red Wind]

That said the only loaded gun I ever have in my possession while driving is a concealed pistol which I do have a license to carry. Range guns are always locked in the trunk which I'm guessing qualifies as a locked container.
__________________

You are good to go in Washington State.

I walk and drive through a school zone every single day. My Florids CCW covers the problem. I just don't step that one foot onto the school property from the sidewalk.

 

[hartcreek]

You also need to pull up Washington states RCW 9.41

 

[Red Wind]

You also need to pull up Washington states RCW 9.41

Done.All you need to know about Washington State gun laws.

Chapter 9.41 RCW
FIREARMS AND DANGEROUS WEAPONS

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41

 

[MedWheeler]

As an aside to this, what exactly does the term "interstate commerce" mean, as used in this law? It appears it was added in a revised version of the law after the original version was struck down as unconstitutional.

 

[Sam1911]

RedWind, it doesn't matter what Florida law says. This is a FEDERAL law. If you don't have the FL carry permit, simply meeting FL law on general firearm transport is NOT ENOUGH when in a school zone.

State law can be less restrictive than federal law, but cannot excuse you from still having to meet the requirements of federal law.

So, the federal law says when you're in a school zone, if you don't have a state carry permit that qualifies you, you must transport in a locked container. Not a pizza box.

 

[Sam1911]

As an aside to this, what exactly does the term "interstate commerce" mean, as used in this law? It appears it was added in a revised version of the law after the original version was struck down as unconstitutional.

Exactly. Congress passed a version of this law that was struck down because they didn't establish how this was an issue where there would be federal jurisdiction, instead of merely being an individual state matter. The second version added that this would apply to guns that have been sold in interstate commerce (which is all of them, one way or another) and, presto, it's a matter that the feds can write a law for.

The same way that all other federal gun control works, really.

 

[Red Wind]

So, the federal law says when you're in a school zone, if you don't have a state carry permit that qualifies you, you must transport in a locked container. Not a pizza box.

I know that. That is why I specified in post #8, " The glove box ,console or as in Florida, a Papa John's pizza box or a Whitman's chocolate box,anything with a covering lid, will be of service."

You can now see I was only talking about Florida Law and having a Florida permit. Obviously in many other states, a box with a lid will not apply, and that States laws with that States permit are needed in the GFSZ's.

Since I visit New Hampshire Pennsylvania every year visiting relatives, I carry both those states permits because of the GFSZ factor.

It seems I was not clear enough in that post, so mea culpa! I did not mean to lead anyone astray.

 

[Sam1911]

... and having a Florida permit

And that's the rub. With the FL permit, you're good. Without it, you aren't.

 

[Red Wind]

^ Agree! That is the big definer on that 1000 foot GFSZ law. Having that States carry permit. It is very troubling, and although rarely enforced, it could happen. Particularly while on foot.

So, until there is a change, I'll continue to shell out the money for those PA and NH permits.

 

[R.Greene]

WA state has open carry without a license, but after seeing maps like this, much of the argument between OC and CC is nullified:

http://www.gunlaws.com/Gun_Free_School_Zones.htm


I do not open carry and prefer not to advertise whether I have a gun on me. Still, I think it's terrible that though our local laws permit it, one would be committing a felony just my walking a few blocks without a CPL.


Luckily for us here in WA, it's $52.50 for a 5 year permit that is Shall Issue

 

[Sam1911]

Shucks, depending on your state's laws, you might be committing a felony just by walking into a church, a bar, a funeral procession, a music festival, a courthouse, a restaurant, a hospital, or just some random place where the owner didn't give you permission to carry.

Ain't right, but there it is.

 

[R.Greene]

Follow-up question:

What is the law about being on School Grounds, with a CPL? For example, going to the school's playground or football field after work, once school has been out for hours? Or even during school's summer vacation?

 

[Sam1911]

You'll need to look at your state's specific laws. Check with www.handgunlaw.us and look at your state's page.

Generally there isn't any real legal difference between what's legal when school's in-session and when it is not.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Follow-up question:

What is the law about being on School Grounds, with a CPL? For example, going to the school's playground or football field after work, once school has been out for hours? Or even during school's summer vacation?

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.280

RCW 9.41.280 (Washington State Law)

Notice there is no limitation in section (1) for only while school is in session.

RCW 9.41.280
Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities — Penalty — Exceptions.

(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:

(a) Any firearm;

(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

(a) Any student or employee of a private military academy when on the property of the academy;

(b) Any person engaged in military, law enforcement, or school district security activities. However, a person who is not a commissioned law enforcement officer and who provides school security services under the direction of a school administrator may not possess a device listed in subsection (1)(f) of this section unless he or she has successfully completed training in the use of such devices that is equivalent to the training received by commissioned law enforcement officers;

(c) Any person who is involved in a convention, showing, demonstration, lecture, or firearms safety course authorized by school authorities in which the firearms of collectors or instructors are handled or displayed;

(d) Any person while the person is participating in a firearms or air gun competition approved by the school or school district;

(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;

(f) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age legally in possession of a firearm or dangerous weapon that is secured within an attended vehicle or concealed from view within a locked unattended vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school;
(g) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age who is in lawful possession of an unloaded firearm, secured in a vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school; or

(h) Any law enforcement officer of the federal, state, or local government agency.