For those of you who think the Krag has a weak action...

[jim in Anchorage]

Ruger pc9 & 40
keltec sub 2k
high point 995
beretta storm
9mm ar15's
and just about any other 9mm carbine you can think of

O.k. there are blow back 9mm. But when does the base exert pressure on the bolt? At the full 38,500 psi or at some point below peak pressure? Also a 9mm is a poor example in this argument. The ratio of case wall[which is doing the holding] to base is much higher in a 30-30 then a 9mm. The 40,000 psi is not a absolute figure; a short fat case will produce backtrust at a lower psi then a long thin one.

sounds like you're describing a fireform load with a grossly undersized bullet IE no pressure

The shoulder and neck where left alone. Only the case body in the chamber had the taper eliminated. It was a 30 bullet in a 30 bore. This is the whole concept of improved cartridges, some times with the neck blown out.

I sense some skepticism here that brass can hold 40.000 psi. It is very important to remember we are dealing with SHEAR strength, not BURSTING strength.
Picture a 3 by 3 ft piece of cardboard fastened by the edges to a open frame. Try to put your fist though it. Easy. That is its bursting strength.
Now take the same piece of cardboard and try to pull it straight apart. Impossible. That is it's shear strength.

 

[Maverick223]

I sense some skepticism here that brass can hold 40.000 psi.

Brass can hold 40kpsi without any trouble...but it must be a great deal thicker than the brass used in cartridges. Shear is often more devastating than other forces. FWIW the "bursting" that you refer to is a type of shear known as punching shear or two-way shear. Ask me how I know.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

Brass can hold 40kpsi without any trouble...but it must be a great deal thicker than the brass used in cartridges. Shear is often more devastating than other forces. FWIW the "bursting" that you refer to is a type of shear known as punching shear or two-way shear. Ask me how I know.

Is not part of the base in a Mauser type bolt unsupported? In calipers that develop 60,000 psi?

 

[Maverick223]

Is not part of the base in a Mauser type bolt unsupported? In [cartridges] that develop 60,000 psi?

Sure, and part of the Coliseum in Rome has fallen. That doesn't mean that the remainder of the bolt head is insufficient or that people don't show up to see what is left of the Coliseum.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

Regardless the unsupported portion of the base, by its self, is withstanding 60,000 psi.

 

[Maverick223]

Regardless the unsupported portion of the base, by its self, is withstanding 60,000 psi.

It is subjected to MUCH less force than a fully unsupported case head. It is akin to a cantilever, the longer the span the exponentially greater the force.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

This may never be resolved to everyones satisfaction unless I duplicate Ackleys experiment[NOT WITH MY 1894] And I understand not all of his ideas have stood up to latter investigation. However, unless he made the whole thing up,this was a direct observation of a controlled experiment with the results I passed on.
This little chat has been going on for close to 10 hours and I am running out of things to add [Although it certainly was interesting]
I highly recommend you get his books, handbook for shooters & reloaders V 1+2 [may be hard to find-probably out of print.] Makes very entertaining reading weather you agree with him or not. If nothing else the man lived and breathed guns.

 

[Maverick223]

If nothing else the man lived and breathed guns.

Now that I agree with. All I want to leave you with is that if the experiment occurred as you stated (and I don't believe that you made it up...but others could have embellished the tale), it was very dangerous, whether it worked or not.

Now back to the regularly scheduled programming...

 

[jim in Anchorage]

Now that I agree with. All I want to leave you with is that if the experiment occurred as you stated (and I don't believe that you made it up...but others could have embellished the tale), it was very dangerous, whether it worked or not.

Ahh will this never end! I would assume the gun was held in a fixture and fired remotely. After all, he did blow up[and I mean BLOW UP] several military actions to test their relative strength with no loss of life or limb that I know of.
getting a lot of rain from that storm down there?

 

[Maverick223]

getting a lot of rain from that storm down there?

Been raining for the last 2 days straight. :banghead:

 

[jim in Anchorage]

Yeah sometimes I HATE THE COLD but no hurricanes here.

 

[StrawHat]

Nice rifle, wish I had the money to buy it.

The front sight is relatively new, I have the same one on my 405, so I wonder if the work was done recently and if so, by whom?

A whole lot to like in that rifle. Have to disagree that it is on a par with the 45-70. Firing 300 grain bullets of decent alloy, the 40 caliber will give better penetration when loaded to the same velocity. I also find the recoil to be easier on the shoulder.

Nice looking rifle.

 

[Maverick223]

Have to disagree that it is on a par with the 45-70. Firing 300 grain bullets of decent alloy, the 40 caliber will give better penetration when loaded to the same velocity.

+1, the .45-70 is a little better IMO. The .45-70 can be loaded to penetrate farther with heavier projectiles, but that is not to say that the .405Win is a bad cartridge in any way.

 

[Jim Watson]

I vaguely recall reading of old time conversions of the Krag to .405 WCF even though DeHaas, Simmons, and Stebbins didn't mention it as feasible. People back then did not have the Internet to warn them against doing what they wanted to with an old gun, even if it meant treading on the safety margins.

However, I wonder if the advertised rifle IS an old time conversion. It appears vaguely modern to me, and of only medium workmanship. It looks to me like a senior project at one of the gunsmithing schools, done with NOS sights and a Krag action. The fleur de lis checkering pattern and glossy stock finish are later styling standards than when the old line Krag sporters were done.

The funky barrel contour looks like something done to demonstrate lathe and mill skills. The transitions from round to octagon to bigger octagon are not real smooth, and there is no attempt at all to transition from octagon to the receiver ring. Stamp marks are poor, probably done by hand with single letter stamps and no guide.

Stock inlets for the peep sight, loading gate, and the left side of the steel buttplate are a little ragged. The abrupt corner between wood and steel at the Mannlicher foreend cap is very awkward.

I'll give him a B on the caliber conversion; it would have been an A (assuming it works) but downgraded for doubtful caliber choice. C+ for the rest of the work.

 

[StrawHat]

Hey Maverick223,

I am saying the 405 is the better cartridge!

 

[Maverick223]

Hey Maverick223,

I am saying the 405 is the better cartridge!

I know, I only agreed with the part where you said it wasn't on par.

 

[Grizzly260]

Quit arguing. My dad and I converted a 1898 Krag carbine to .405 Winchester. We've fired at least 1000 rounds ranging from 220 gn screamers at 2600 fps to 300 gn freight train loads at 2200. We have yet to have a problem with anything cracking. So unless you've watched a Krag blow up don't down talk one of the finest rifles ever devised.

 

[Maverick223]

No one has argued jack in over a month...well except for you, right now.