For those who recover range lead

[P51D]

Regarding copper jacketed bullets recovered from berms or traps at a range:

1. What is the "typical" lead core BHN hardness and composition, if there even is such thing as typical?

2. Does the lead separate cleanly out of the copper jacket during smelting? Seems like a fair amount of lead would still stick to the copper jacket, sort of like soldering copper pipe joints?

THANKS!

P51D

 

[dgod]

In my case, the lead separates from the copper hacket, then the copper floats for easy removal.

 

[denton]

Typically, the bullet core is very soft, nearly pure lead.

 

[.308 Norma]

In my case, the lead separates from the copper hacket, then the copper floats for easy removal.

That's been my experience - same with gas checks. For that matter, I used to melt down wheel weights and it worked the same way - the steel clips would simply float to the surface, and were easily "skimmed" off.

 

[brewer12345]

I usually assume mixed range lead is 9 or 10 bhn.

 

[bluejay75]

Brewer12345 hit it about as close as any suggestion you’ll get. The long distance berms will be on the soft side as berms that get slugs are balanced out with hard shot if your sifter isn’t too fine.

 

[edwardware]

It depends. My local burm seems to be 40% cast bullets, 50% jacket, and 10% .22.

At rendering temp, the lead runs off the jackets just fine, leaves barely a smudge. Popping the copper plated bullets like 800degF pimples is exciting! Wear your glasses.

And everything except uranium floats in molten lead, so you will need to fish the occasional DU penetrator off the bottom of the pot.

 

[whughett]

All of the above. Mine is limited to our 25 yard range so my guess is 99 percent pistol bullets.
If you haven’t done it I advise you start the pot full cold or you run the risks of molten lead being spattered.

 

[forrest r]

Been using range scrap since 1990, always said it's 8/9bhn which more likely then not. It's on the conservative side.

At the end of the day you're really dealing with 2 different bhn #'s. Air cooled 8/9bhn and water dropped/cooled 12/13bhn.

The big thing is to use the biggest pot you can find. I use +/- 150# batches of range scrap to make +/- 100# of usable ingots. All the junk floats to the top & you should check with your loacal scrap yard. Mine buys the copper jackets as #2 alloy.

99%+ of my shooting is done with the range scrap using loads up to +/- 35,000psi. When I use the longer bodied rifle bullets that have to deal rotation torques I use specific alloys.

 

[243winxb]

Sierra makes the core of the bullet from four lead alloys: 6% antimony-4% tin, 6% antimony, 3% antimony, 1 1/2% antimony, and pure lead.

Range scrap could be from 2% antimony to bhn 15 if there are a lot of cast bullet shooters using "hardball". Hardball Bullet Casting Alloy consists of 2% tin, 6% antimony and 92% lead.

Scrap from the indoor range was good, as is.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

you will need to fish the occasional DU penetrator off the bottom of the pot.

That must be one of those southwest things. Aside from maybe Camp Blanding or Eglin AFB, I can't think of anywhere around here where people shoot DU. Not even sure the bases allow DU anymore given all the environmental hassles and lawsuits. Sure as heck not going to find any on the club ranges.

 

[P51D]

Thanks, all. Good info! I've been casting for 22 Hornet using wheel weight lead, with some good success. Lyman #225438 mould. The first time I rendered wheel weights I loved seeing the steel clips float. I had already read that would be the case, either here, or in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook (highly recommended), or just being familiar with the periodic chart. But still, seeing a piece of steel (not shaped anywhere near boat-hull-form) float in liquid, that is fun. I still get a kick out of it. Anyway, I hope to start casting for 8x57 Mauser soon. We'll see how that goes.

Regarding wheel weights, we all know the lead ones are getting more scarce, hence my question about the range scrap. I may have at least some access to that. And glad to hear that recyclers may buy the copper jackets. Around here (SW Ohio), some recyclers won't touch anything ammo related, some will.

Good info on the 4 different compositions Sierra (and others?) uses, what is likely to be found in different distance berms (never thought of that), watching out for the copper-plated-potential-pimples (never thought of that either). For rendering, great advice on starting "cold" with a full pot of dry wheel weight (or range scrap) lead, so any trapped hidden water evaporates before the lead melts. And don't add anything to the pot that may have hidden water (or ice) in it that could flash (explode) to steam, spraying you and anyone near with molten lead.

Thanks again for the input. P51D

 

[edwardware]

And don't add anything to the pot that may have hidden water (or ice) in it that could flash (explode) to steam. . .

That can't really be helped; it's no where near practical to render a single pot at a time. I fill the pot 20x, and produce 200# of ingots a day when I'm on a roll.

So, add the (relatively) dry feedstock to the pot with a spade, and then put the cover on. Any pop and phizzle won't be in your face, and it's all done well before you need to get in there and scoop rocks and jackets off.

 

[Bwana John]

And everything except uranium floats in molten lead

ummm....
Lead floats in gold, mercury, platinum, tungsten, osmium, palladium, plutonium, iridium, hafnium.... and as you mentioned uranium.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

ummm....
Lead floats in gold, mercury, platinum, tungsten, osmium, palladium, plutonium, iridium, hafnium.... and as you mentioned uranium.

What floats in Adamantium?


Wolverine.

 

[Bwana John]

What floats in Adamantium?
Wolverine.

I must be too old... All I can come up with is tungsten (W) = wolfram

 

[1976B.L.Johns.]

If you haven’t done it I advise you start the pot full cold or you run the risks of molten lead being spattered.

Good advice...The water will evaporate before the lead becomes molten.
Obviously, FMJ's are out for salvaging lead unless in my experience, the jacket is damaged.

I will let my "mined" lead dry for a good period of time and never add salvaged bullets to a molten pot of lead!!!

The "Tinsel Fairy" is an Evil Woman!!!

 

[bluejay75]

Now if you don’t listen to the guys above. Any hissing, bubbling, boiling after you add range scrap lead to the pot should be followed by a dead sprint!

Coming from experience good sir. I have blown the finger off of a leather and canvas glove.

 

[BJung]

My outdoor range pistol scrap is melted using my Lee Pot whenever I have the chance. Brass jackets and other debri float to the top. I've let the ingots sit for 4-6 months and tested the BHN with lead pencils. I get a range from 11-12, 14-15, 16-18, 20-22 bhn according to my pencils at 26-28 for wheel weight ingots I traded for. While some might question how precise lead pencils work. I take the scrap pistol range lead ingots and separate the hardness by caliber. I use the softest ingots for .38 special and .45 LSWC loads. The 20-22 is for 9mm and 40 S&W, and the 16-18 is for very light 9mm loads. The wheel weight lead is being saved for rifle bullets.

 

[jmorris]

The stuff you don’t want floats and can be drawn off the top. Most jacketed stuff will be closer to pure lead than other alloys.

I have a mold I made my “standard” when I started. I know what it drops with “certified” lead. If it drops heavy, I add Lynotype until its dropping the correct weight.

 

[edwardware]

. . . gold, mercury, platinum, tungsten, osmium, palladium, plutonium, iridium, hafnium.

And I thought my pistol burm was exciting! You must be at the Mad Scientists Rod and Gun Club.

. . . and never add salvaged bullets to a molten pot of lead!!!

It's just not anywhere near that dramatic. I added 200# of feedstock, stored outside, covered, to my molten process pot last weekend. It was added by the shovel full, and as per usual some popping and fizzing occurred. Don't stick you face down there, and change out of you flip flops, and you'll be fine.

 

[whughett]

And I thought my pistol burm was exciting! You must be at the Mad Scientists Rod and Gun Club.


It's just not anywhere near that dramatic. I added 200# of feedstock, stored outside, covered, to my molten process pot last weekend. It was added by the shovel full, and as per usual some popping and fizzing occurred. Don't stick you face down there, and change out of you flip flops, and you'll be fine.

Good lord you are apparently comparing adding material containing water to a pot boiling at 212 degrees to one that’s can be 800 degrees and up. As a cable splicer for the communication industry for 30 years in an era where much of the cable coverings were lead and part of the job description was to handle molten lead on a daily basis. I can state emphatically water and molten lead are a dangerous mix. One jacketed bullet with water trapped inside will literally explode like a tiny little bomb casting lead droplets many feet up and out of the pot. A milligram of water will erupt like a small volcano. But don’t take my word for it give it a try. Dip a finger in water and flick a drop or two into the pot. Wear safety glasses though and stand well back.

 

[edwardware]

Good lord you are apparently comparing adding material containing water to a pot boiling at 212 degrees. . .

No. The lead pot is running near 800F.

But don’t take my word for it give it a try. Dip a finger in water and flick a drop or two into the pot. Wear safety glasses though and stand well back.

Since you've apparently done this, you must know that droplets on the surface just boil without any drama at all.

You need to trap the droplets under the surface to launch any molten lead. That happens regularly, hence the shovel to scoop feedstock into the pot. If you load the pot while hunched over it you'll experience the danger you describe, but there's no need to.

 

[denton]

We had an incident in a town where I lived in Michigan... Rainstorm over the weekend, leaky roof, unexpected rainwater in a casting vessel. A couple of workers came in on Monday morning and poured molten copper into the vessel. The explosion killed both of them.

 

[whughett]

Deleted.