Found a Grendel P12

[MachIVshooter]

Always kinda like these truncated little guns, but I was only 12 years old when production ceased, and was never willing to pay the $300-$500 people wanted during the ban years. Every now and then I'd run across one at a show, but still going for $250+ post ban, so I'd just move along.

Well, yesterday I finally got around to visiting the new Cabela's at 1-25 and Ridgegate here in CO, and low and behold, one was sitting in their used cabinet. Not only that, but it appeared to be virtually new, and was tagged at only $149! So despite their rather ridiculous purchasing process, I went for it.

Not mine, but a representative photo for those who are unfamiliar:

Not much taller or longer than it's descendent, the P3AT, though the P12 is quite a bit chunkier. It's also a blowback system with a stout true DAO trigger (like the Kel Tec P11 that also descended from it), but in spite of that, the P12 was still pretty revolutionary and a bit ahead of it's time, with most states having still been may-issue or no-issue on CCW in the pre-ban years.

Anyway, It was having feeding issues, but nothing a Dremel couldn't fix! It would stovepipe fresh rounds 2-3 times per magazine, and upon inspection, it was clear to me that the frame portion of the feed ramp was way too aggressive, appearing to be about 60* and actually overlapping the barrel's ramp looking from the rear on the horizontal plane. So I took it down to about 40* and slightly below the bottom of the barrel's ramp (there is a gap, so it's really a continuous angle now. Viola! Feeding problems solved!

Will I carry it? Probably not much. Despite it's now being reliable, there are better choices 20 years after the last P12s rolled out of the Grendel factory. But it is still a neat little weapon, IMO, and represents the heritage of many pocket .380s we all carry today!

Would love to hear other's P12 or P10 stories, too.

 

[Kiln]

They're pretty cool little guns and you can definitely see Kelgren's signature in the lines of the frame and slide.

I like the P10 because it has a fixed internal magazine, which is a rarity even among obscure handguns.

 

[Lucky Derby]

I haven't seen one of those in years! What a time travel moment!
On a related note, a cop friend of mine carried a P10 as a BUG when they first came out.

 

[Charlie Horse]

About 3 years ago the wife and I started in a new church. As tends to happen when the men folk, and some of the ladies were standing around, we stated talking guns. Turns out our pastor carries a P10, even in the pulpit. He got into reloading .380 when he picked it up and said that is stands up well to his warmer handloads. I gave him some M16 stripper clips, but no luck finding the speedloader for it or a reasonable approximation. Neat little gun.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I had a P12 for a while. Very reliable for the box or so of ammo I put through it. It was probably accurate, too -- but I found the heavy trigger more trouble than it was worth.

If the trigger could be tweaked (probably could, but I didn't try), it would have been OK. As it was, I would have to make almost "contact" shots to be sure the fired rounds went where they should. The P3AT was much easier to shoot, but a bit less pleasant in the hand.

I bought it as a novelty, and sold it as a novelty.

 

[MedWheeler]

I have a P10, purchased on a department order around 1988, when Grendel was marketing it to LE as a potential BU/OD gun. Like yours (OP), it needed some smoothing of the feed ramp to run well.

The P10 was definitely an innovation that was ahead of its time. During an era when cops were hesitant to run semi-automatics as ankle guns (due to concerns over safety levers or mag releases getting kicked during the rigors of the job), Grendel wanted to offer a simple, ready-to-run ankle gun that would double the firepower of the long-relied-upon .38 snub while being fired in the same manner. A rapid reload was not a concern, since few .38 snubs so carried had one available, either.

The concept of non-LE citizens carrying concealed firearms was also taking off; the gun came out at the same time Florida's landmark "shall-issue" statewide licensing law took effect, and Grendel was based in the state.

The P12 followed quickly, to satisfy those who couldn't warm up to an internal magazine, or simply wanted a rapid-reload option. I almost picked one up a couple of years back, also priced at $150. But, I really couldn't justify it to myself as anything more than a curiosity, and had no financial margin for that at the time.

They're neat guns..

 

[Sun Tzu warrior]

Never had a P-10 or P-12, but the many P-30's I've had were all great running pistols save one low serial numbered model. I suspect that your P-12 is a low serial unit, or the feed ramp issues would have been resolved before leaving the factory. Congrats, they are like land..... not being made anymore!
STW

 

[wideym]

Until recently, I've only seen P10s and most of those were broken. I've tried to fire two P10s and they were jam o' matics. I didn't even know they make a detachable mag version until last week an older gentleman brought one into the gunshop to see if I could unload a double feed from it. He had inherited it from his late father an intended to use it as a conceal carry gun, til he tried to shoot it.

I got it unloaded for him and he asked if the shop would want to buy it. I told him we wouldn't to buy at all, when he offered to sell it for ten bucks just to be rid of it. I made the purchase and he promptly gave the ten buck just for unloading it for him. He had mentioned that he had a .38 special, so I gave him a box of .38 special fmj ammo to practice with.

We will probable end up selling it "as is" for fifty bucks.

 

[steven58]

don't know about the P-12 but the worst gun I ever owned was a P-10.
recoil would hit directly on the pressure point at first knuckle of my thumb and hurt worse than any other handgun, if you racked the slide while tilting the gun even slightly the non captive pin that held the slide in place would fall out launching the slide about 3' towards the target.
Accuracy was minute of dinner plate at 15 yds.

The only good thing about that gun was after sitting in my safe for 20 years I was able to sell the LNIB complete kit of pistol, soft case, loader and paperwork to a collector for 4 times what I paid for it.

 

[sixgunner455]

Read about those, and thought they'd be something useful. Bought a P11, and it never jammed or had one problem besides the extremely long trigger and uncomfortable recoil. Always worked, though.

 

[Darkbob]

I knew a guy that owned one back when I was in high school. The P-12 was the first auto-loading pistol I ever shot. That pic does bring back some memories for me. I only shot it a few times, but I don't recall it ever not going bang. I still have a couple of the fired cases in one of my old storage boxes. Good memories!

 

[MedWheeler]

Sixgunner455 writes:

Bought a P11, and it never jammed or had one problem besides the extremely long trigger and uncomfortable recoil.

It sounds like you're talking about a Kel-Tec product. Grendel never sold a gun as a "P11."

Though traces of Grendel's DNA can be found in the KT lineage, Grendel's P-series guns and Kel-Tec's are nowhere near the same guns.

 

[zoomm]

I had a P12 and shot it a lot. The trigger was pretty heavy on mine. The P12 used clock springs. Never, never, dry fire a P12 as it will snap the flat coil spring. I always inserted an empty for practice pulls. I may still have some extra main springs somewhere.

 

[Big Shrek]

Sixgunner455 writes:



It sounds like you're talking about a Kel-Tec product. Grendel never sold a gun as a "P11."

Though traces of Grendel's DNA can be found in the KT lineage, Grendel's P-series guns and Kel-Tec's are nowhere near the same guns.

Of course there are traces, George Kellgren, owner of both, designer of 99% of both companies guns...
more than a few similarities

 

[Big Mike]

My experience: had one in the mid 90's, all I could afford at the time. Shot it a couple of times, trigger broke. Sent to factory, for repair, returned. The first release of the slide on a loaded mag caused a "slam fire." I have an unfavorable opinion of them and over the years understand others to have had similar experiences. Be cautious when you shoot these as I believe they are unsafe, in any condition.

The Kel-Tec may be a cost effective reasonable improvement over the Grendel, but I've never shot one.

Good luck....

 

[sixgunner455]

Of course there are traces, George Kellgren, owner of both, designer of 99% of both companies guns...
more than a few similarities

Amen, BigShrek. That was the point to my post.

 

[MedWheeler]

Big Shrek and sixgunner455, While there is a common designer to the P11 (a recoil-operated 9mm pistol) and the Grendel P-12 (a blowback-operated one in .380), I don't see enough similarities between the two to imply that the P-11 is a Grendel product, or to include discussion of it in a Grendel P12 thread.

Kel-Tec agrees; they claim no ties to the Grendel line and offer no parts or support for Grendel owners.

That was the point to my post.

 

[funkotronic]

Hi folks - I'm new to this board, I stumbled across it while doing some research on one of these oddball little firearms. I just recently got one of these as a curiosity. I like the unusual appearance, ultra-light-weight (14+ oz!!) and small size. One of the reasons I grabbed it is items such as this are a little tough to legally find out here in the Republik of KrazyFornia, heh. Yes, disassembly is a bit of a pain without the assistance of hands #3 and #4, and I will take the advice of numerous folks and NEVER disassemble the lower.

I put 100 rounds through it yesterday with only one FTF. That first-ever live fire test was with the stock barrel. Today I will give it a try with the extended barrel with muzzle brake, I'm curious to see what the difference (if any) will be. I've read wildly varying reports on the accuracy of these - some folks love them, others feel it would be better to simply throw the Grendel at them for a better chance of actually hitting one's intended target. For a controlled measure of accuracy, I'd like to vise-fire an entire magazine through it, but I'm not comfortable with clamping a somewhat flexible all-polymer grip in a vice for fear of deformation and/or damage. I may mold up a vise jig if I get motivated enough.

The long/heavy DA trigger definitely takes some getting used to, and adds further challenge to the already inherent accuracy issues of a stubby like this.

The one thing that I will make notable comment on: The extreme lightness of this sidearm has a definite caveat - without all the normal mass of a steel frame to soak up all the kinetic energy, this "cute little .380" sure does beat the 'anal excrement' out of your thumb knuckle with the surprising amount of kick, coupled with a definite less-than-ergonomic grip design. Yes, that rectangular darkening is the bruise imprint of the way-too-square grip. Hah! By the end of the box, I was really happy to be switching off to my sweet little vintage Bersa .380, which, in comparison, was like a feather-trigger air pistol.



But it doesn't mean it goes in the junk pile - not by a long shot. (see what I did there?) This will be a perfect backpack pistol, owing to the size and weight - or lack thereof, more accurately.

I may see what I can do about fabricating a grip extension, just for fun.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

A firm called KTADDONS made grip material that can be put on the grip of the PF9 and smaller KT guns (works on the similar Ruger's too) that noticeably made the recoil less unpleasant on my P3AT (later sold), LCP (also later sold) and a PF9 (still got it...)

If you're going to keep this little bugger -- I didn't keep mine -- it might be worth checking their site and getting the stuff for a PF9 or P11 and adapting it to that gun. (Note: I just tried their website and it's having problems. Sometimes it seem to work, but it may be they're out of business. You might try emailing them, here: [email protected]) The prices when I bought mine weren't high, and it was well worth the money.