Fox labs mean green

[twistingtree]

not shure if this is new i have just recently been looking into pepper sprays and saw the claiming new fox labs mean green i ordered one still waiting for it to arrive. Its supposed to be hotter than there 5.3 formula. does anyone have any more info or has anyone used this?

 

[ray_ray]

there is a link to that green stuff in an older thread
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=308496

 

[twistingtree]

thats the website i ordered mine from looking for some hands on feedback or other info.

 

[cpileri]

I emailed foxlabs

I will post their response tomorrow, but i asked if it was a legit Foxlabs product since defensedevices sells it, but it isn't mentioned on the foxlabs website.
They confirmed it was indeed a foxlabs product, and a special case of letting a distributor market it before foxlabs engaged in direct sales.

Apparently, I was not the first one to email Foxlabs to confirm the legitimacy of the product.

It is a bit weaker in SHU's than the 5.3, but gies up little in incapacitating power: akin to the difference between the 40cal and 45ACP handgun rounds. Sure, a bit different, perhaps even less, but not so you'd notice.

The dye is indeed a vegetable based dye and is biologically harmless. The formula itself is water-based, unlike the other foxlabs products which are oil-based.

Again, I will post their response tomorrow.
C-

 

[ray_ray]

It is a bit weaker in SHU's than the 5.3, but gies up little in incapacitating power: akin to the difference between the 40cal and 45ACP handgun rounds. Sure, a bit different, perhaps even less, but not so you'd notice

actually the new spray is hotter then the 5.3 with,Fox Labs Mean Green Features:


Searing 3,000,000 SHU formula at 6% concentration
Provides 180,000 SHU out the nozzle and 1.2% total capsaicinoids.
when the 5.3 is out the nozzle only 79.200 shu.
http://www.pepper-spray-store.com/relatedinfo/pepper-spray-heat.shtml#SHU
http://www.cqbsupply.com/hot.html

 

[brent376]

I talked with Edward Ferguson the president of Fox Labs. The mean green has a purer resin than the FOX 5.3 but it is water based. It does not work quite as fast as the Fox 5.3 formula but it works in about a second. That is plenty fast enough. Both the 5.3 and mean green will get the job done. The scoville value of the Fox Mean green is hotter than the fox 5.3. The fox 5.3 is 106,000 at the nozzle heat while the mean green is 180,000 at the nozzle heat.

I like the green dye idea. I think that would be a good way to place the bad guy at the scene of the crime. Some of the brands that say they use UV dye really dont and if you take a black light and test the UV dye it does not work like the makers claim. If you place any amount of water on your face the UV dye will wash off. It does not last two days like they claim.

A visable red or green dye that could not be washed off would work better. For years we were told to look for the product that has the highest SHU rating. We now know that the SHU test was not a scientific test. The only two ways to measure the pungency of a defense spray is by an HPLC computer test that tells you the precise percentage of capsaicin content or to take the concentration of OC and multiply it by the raw SHU rating.

For example: First Defense is 10% OC made from 500,000 SHU. 10%X500,000 is 50,000 at the nozzle heat.

Fox 5.3 is 2.0% OC made from 5,300,000 raw SHU. 2%x5,300,000 is 106,000.

Sabre Red and Spitfire is 10% OC x 2,000,000 raw SHU. 10%X2,000,000 is 200,000 at the nozzle heat. Spitfire and Sabre Red test every single batch via HPLC to make sure it is consistantly hot. The only brands I know of that are consistantly the same are Sabre Red, Spitfire, DPS X Stream Range, Cap-Stun and Vexor.

 

[ray_ray]

The fox 5.3 is 106,000 at the nozzle heat while the mean green is 180,000 at the nozzle heat.For example: First Defense is 10% OC made from 500,000 SHU. 10%X500,000 is 50,000 at the nozzle heat.

Fox 5.3 is 2.0% OC made from 5,300,000 raw SHU. 2%x5,300,000 is 106,000.

Sabre Red and Spitfire is 10% OC x 2,000,000 raw SHU. 10%X2,000,000 is 200,000 at the nozzle heat. Spitfire and Sabre Red test every single batch via HPLC to make sure it is consistantly hot. The only brands I know of that are consistantly the same are Sabre Red, Spitfire, DPS X Stream Range, Cap-Stun and Vexor

thats is what they claim but check out the link i posted http://www.pepper-spray-store.com/relatedinfo/pepper-spray-heat.shtml#SHU that is it lab tested and the 5.3 dont have that out the nozzle they only have 79.200shu. but your calculation is right but the thing is they can wright what ever they want on there products. go whith the 10% whith 2000 000 shu products they are the best imho. and dont forget the total capsaicinoids out the nozzle thats also importent.

 

[ray_ray]

and the % is how long the oc stays 2% works, now i just gesing but about 15 min when the 10% can burn for 30 to 40 min.

 

[brent376]

Yup Ray Ray you are exactly right. I personally dont carry the Fox Labs but I only carry the Spitfire. www.spitfire.us I like the spitfire because yes it is always hot and it is one of a very few that are HPLC tested but the delivery system and dispenser cant be beat. The problem with most OC sprays is you cant aim them quick enough to use in a typical self defense situation. Having a 2 ounce canister in your pocket is not going to do you any good in a sudden violent attack. The spitfire rests in the hand and is always ready to fire and is very low profile.

The University of Utah Forensic Science unit did a test on 20 different sprays and it showed that OC variability was the reason why most oc sprays were only 70% effective. Go with Spitfire, Sabre red, DPS X Stream range and you will never have an OC failure do to not enough heat.

 

[ray_ray]

yes but i have the german stuff. and that is really nasty, becouse i live in europa (sweden) here it really illegall by the way same as a gun in court but here is like in england you dont have the right to defend your self and we have the lest police in europa per capita i think. but what is it you say in usa i, i rader be judged by twelw then barid by six, not wery good on the gramma and spelling hope you understad.

 

[brent376]

Yeah I have heard the stuff made by Walther Pro Secur is nasty stuff. The solvent used is the same thing used in paint degreaser. and dont worrry about the spelling because my spelling has always sucked. I just wont blame my pencil for mispelled words like the anti gun blame firearms for crime.

 

[ray_ray]

that tottaly right the thing is that i is that mabye some folks dont unterstad what i mean becsue of t spelleing but no one hav dissed me yet sohe

 

[ray_ray]

but the nastyest stuff is the OC 5000 also from german that is like you stuffed your head in a barrel of lava. that is what i edc bout i bears spray sized one and one gel from RSG but that is also oc 5000

 

[ray_ray]

Yeah I have heard the stuff made by Walther Pro Secur is nasty stuff. The solvent used is the same thing used in paint degreaser. and dont worrry about the spelling because my spelling has always sucked. I just wont blame my pencil for mispelled words like the anti gun blame firearms for crime

this is pro secure poor poor guy but funny
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEovuq8U7e0

 

[brent376]

That stuff looks very bad. Reminds me of Spitfire or Sabre Red. What is the Capsaicin content of that stuff?

 

[ray_ray]

That stuff looks very bad. Reminds me of Spitfire or Sabre Red. What is the Capsaicin content of that stuff?

it says 10% 2000000 SHU
http://www.umarex.com/index.php?id=...nter_id=1&variante_id=2.2002&cHash=1d3a5f3608

 

[cpileri]

Straight from the Fox’s mouth.

Here WAS (*) an email I received from Mr. Ed Ferguson at Fox Labs, and an attached pdf that will ultimately be displayed on the foxlabs website. I have his permission to re-post (*).
I have left off his email, though a quick visit to the website will get you contact info if you want to verify for yourself.
(*): edit: I made an error in judgement with posting the email communique. Mr. Ferguson gave me permission to post the pdf file ONLY. So the file remains, but I have deleted the email from this post. reason is that the email was direclty to me, and therefore only addressed a question I had; which did not give a complete summary of the issue to a reader who didn't know what question i originally asked. So rather than leave incomplete info to be quoted out of context, I removed it.

Now, in my own mind I summarized the info regarding the difference in onset and effect of lesser amounts of pure capscaicin resin versus larger amounts of less pure resin; and the "smoke and mirrors" game that is 'Nozzle Heat'. Here is my summary:

" An impure resin is a mix of active ingredient plus junk. The junk inhibits absorption and therefore delays onset of symptoms. Adding more impure resin will indeed increase the absolute amount of active ingredient in the blast, but also increases the amount of junk further inhibiting onset of action.
Its like saying there is more gold dissolved in ocean water than there is in all the goldmines in current use (true!) but you have to process hundreds of millions of gallons of seawater to get it. Or, [one could] put it, the difference between Everclear and Beer: 5 beers have the same amount of ethanol as one shot of Everclear, but it also has a lot more water, foam, calories, etc you have to get through to get the effect you are after.

A hypothetical product of pure capscaicin(oid), ie. 100% straight from Sigma or whatever chemical source [Foxlabs uses], would obviously be both the fastest acting (without a transdermal carrier is added) and the HOTTEST spray. It would also be tremendously expensive and even overkill in terms of effectiveness- effective, but a waste of resources. How much hotter than "My face is on fire" do you need?

When starting with a pure capscaicin base, [Foxlabs] have added USEFUL things like carriers and dyes or whatever to make the percentage of capscaicin in the final product as effective as possible while still being an efficient use of the 100% pure base; and [Foxlabs] are able to keep the effectiveness maximized because [Foxlabs] do not have to add junk to [the] final product to get the amount of active ingredient [sought] after."
________________________
I also speculate that Foxlabs found the 5.3% to be the most effective in combination with the chosen solvent & carrier and dyes in terms of balancing onset of action, peak effect, and cost. The addition of these other synergistic ingredients can make a product that is hot enough to stop a human; and can be chemically enhanced to be of faster onset, for example, than that hypothetical pure capscaicin product. All speculation on my part, but if I was developing the product; that's what I'd do.

Hope this new, edited info helps.
C-
p.s. no, I don’t sell any Foxlabs product. Though if anyone can square me away with one of those revolving-rifle launchers on the website- I’d sure think that was cool!

 

[brent376]

I have to say that Fox Labs does work and it is a fine defense spray but the American Spice and Trade Association only uses method 21.3 to test the heat of capsaicinoids in fresh peppers. This is done via HPLC test. While it is true that the higher the percentage of capsaicin in a product the greater the concentration of solvents needed to keep that product into suspension, it does not matter how pure a manufacturer says the resin is. It is a fact proven by the pharmacutical industry that the product with the higher Capsaicinoid concentration will have a greater inflammatory effect. The greater the inflammatory effect the more swelling and pain the attacker will expierence. A person who is sprayed with a 0.18% Capsaicinoid spray is not going to feel the same effect if he is then sprayed with a 1.33% capsaicinoid spray. I think that consumers and law enforcement should listen to what the experts say about OC spray and not just a claim by one company that says that at the nozzle heat and capsaicin percentages are useless.