Freedom Arms?

[MaxP]

Are Freedom Arms guns really that far superior in actual usable accuracy to warrant the price over a blackhawk?

That depends on the individual Ruger. My .454 SBH will shoot circles around my FA83 in .454 and there is so much end-shake that it rattles if I shake it. Generally speaking, FAs are accurate as they are put together correctly and meticulously. Another option is the BFR which while not as aesthetically pleasing, I have found them to be every bit as accurate as FAs. FAs are nice, but I would rather have a custom built than pay the premium for a new Premier Grade M83. JMHO.

 

[Plastikosmd]

As there is no yoke, your "end shake" indicates significant wear or misfitting from factory. All but one of my guns has additional cylinders and even with swapping there is no shake. There is barely light between the fit of the cylinder and frame/throat. (The tight fit may not be a great thing if u plan to drag it though mud then shoot it)

I would say you have a problem gun max. You should send it in to fix the damage. If u got it like that, " new "it should be covered.

Used, who knows? You may have bought someone else's problem. I hate that!

I have seen people try and loosen them up a bit, thinking they are too tight, same with chambers etc. It may have other issues, at those pressures it is better to be safe.

 

[CraigC]

FA's are great and I appreciate them for what they are but for what they cost, I too prefer custom Rugers. If I'm spending $3000, I'd rather get exactly what I want. FA's are not customs and have limited options.

 

[MaxP]

As there is no yoke, your "end shake" indicates significant wear or misfitting from factory. All but one of my guns has additional cylinders and even with swapping there is no shake. There is barely light between the fit of the cylinder and frame/throat. (The tight fit may not be a great thing if u plan to drag it though mud then shoot it)

I would say you have a problem gun max. You should send it in to fix the damage. If u got it like that, " new "it should be covered.

Used, who knows? You may have bought someone else's problem. I hate that!

I have seen people try and loosen them up a bit, thinking they are too tight, same with chambers etc. It may have other issues, at those pressures it is better to be safe

The gun was loose from the outset, which is pretty typical of Rugers. That said, as it is a pre-production model that I jury tested for Ruger, it has loosened up some more under the steady diet of heavy loads. However, below are the typical groups it will shoot if I am doing my job. Loose isn't necessarily bad, and frankly, I don't want "fix" this gun as it is so bleeding accurate. The "bank vault" tightness of FAs in my humble opinion is more than a little overrated.

All of the groups shot below are five-shots at 50 yards. The revolver has a red dot up top and not a scope. I will be scoping it soon to see what I can really get out of it with regards to accuracy.

 

[Plastikosmd]

max, I'm sorry I thought u said the single action had endshake (FA)
that would be very unusual.
I agree that ruger shoots well, leave it
at times the FA can be too tight. It is a great target gun, I would not take it as my primary hunting gun without full cover holster. Not to say you cant!
I am a target guy, so tight is what I am looking for
nice groups

 

[ChiefTJS]

My current (and keeper) is a .44 Mag model 83 and I previously owned a Model 97 in .22lr. I love the 83 but never warmed up to the 97 for some reason. Fit and finish are incredible and can be felt as soon as you pick it up and accuracy is beyond my ability so I'm quite pleased. I have one Smith that is close in accuracy but not quite, I've had great shooting Rugers but I have not had any that are as good as the Freedom.

It's a lot of money but if you look around at what folks are paying for 1911's, AR's and nice shotguns, the Freedom Arms is worth the price.

 

[farm23]

I have owned a 7.5" 454 for 30+ years and it has taken most big game here in the US. I only wish I could afford a second FA in a 4.75". When I bought mine FA did not offer a second cylinder for 45 [if they did I was not aware of the offering[ so I have shot 45LC in my 454 cylinder and thoroughly cleaned after every session. They are the best big bore revolver made.

 

[Coal Dragger]

That depends on the individual Ruger. My .454 SBH will shoot circles around my FA83 in .454 and there is so much end-shake that it rattles if I shake it. Generally speaking, FAs are accurate as they are put together correctly and meticulously. Another option is the BFR which while not as aesthetically pleasing, I have found them to be every bit as accurate as FAs. FAs are nice, but I would rather have a custom built than pay the premium for a new Premier Grade M83. JMHO.

I see the FA's as offering a more consistently accurate revolver than say a Ruger production model. That consistent high level of assembly and fitting costs money, but generally yields a firearm capabe of higher precision (shooting good groups). Sure there are Rugers out there that will shoot just as well, but there are also plenty out there that will not.

Since most gun shops get a little upset when you show up with gauges to measure cylinder throats and want to take apart the prospective revolver, it is a crap shoot for most of us. My brother for example had a Super Blackhawk in .45 Colt, and we never could find a factory load or reload that would print a group smaller than 3" at 25 yards. My M83 does much much better than that, even with a .45ACP cylinder.

 

[MaxP]

Which is what I essentially said. For me, if I have $3,000 in disposable income - essentially the cost for a new Premier Grade FA 83, I'm going to have a custom built the way I want it. It's the price point that I don't care for and hence mention BFRs as they are consistently right out of the box and considerably cheaper -- and, you can safely carry them with a round under the hammer. A little detail I like. Don't get me wrong as I still have an FA 83 and have no intentions of letting it go anytime soon, but it isn't even close to being a favorite. Again, JMHO.

This is an unmodified BFR in .500 JRH. It has an Ultradot red dot up top and that is a five-shot 50 yard group. These revolvers offer serious bang for the buck.

 

[Rodentman]

I have two 83 Premiers, one in 44 mag with the octagonal barrel and the other is the 454 which came with the 45 colt and 45 acp cylinders and an FA holster. Both were used, very lightly, but still not cheap. I am glad to have them both and they are great shooters.

 

[Coal Dragger]

Which is what I essentially said. For me, if I have $3,000 in disposable income - essentially the cost for a new Premier Grade FA 83, I'm going to have a custom built the way I want it. It's the price point that I don't care for and hence mention BFRs as they are consistently right out of the box and considerably cheaper -- and, you can safely carry them with a round under the hammer. A little detail I like. Don't get me wrong as I still have an FA 83 and have no intentions of letting it go anytime soon, but it isn't even close to being a favorite. Again, JMHO.

This is an unmodified BFR in .500 JRH. It has an Ultradot red dot up top and that is a five-shot 50 yard group. These revolvers offer serious bang for the buck.

Well if you're paying $3K for a Freedom Arms, even a premier grade, then you are getting a bad deal. My wife bought mine for me in 2011, and paid right over $2K for it. Even with an action job and spare cylinder I'm in it for comfortably under $3K. Even Hamilton Bowen has stated that mechanically there's not really anything to improve on with an FA revolver, which says a lot.

I would like to try a BFR though, you aren't the first to mention the performance for the money those offer.

 

[CraigC]

I see the FA's as offering a more consistently accurate revolver than say a Ruger production model.

Probably so but you're sure paying a hell of a lot for precision you may not need. I have no shortage of factory Rugers that do 2"@50yds. An FA may do better than that but what would be the point?

Well if you're paying $3K for a Freedom Arms, even a premier grade, then you are getting a bad deal.

A new Premier Grade is $2800, add $578 for an octagon barrel and another $120 for an action job plus $113 for ivory micarta. Add sales tax and you're pushing 4k. The FA, I might add, which can be anything you want as long as it's stainless steel.

By contrast, my .500JRH, which is almost finished, is built on a $500 base Ruger. Add $1600 for the conversion, $300 for an octagon barrel, $300 for grips and you're well under the cost of an FA. Of course, mine received a lot more work than that but you get the point. Part of that point is that FA doesn't make grips to fit your hand, a scratch built front sight and basepin from your drawing or myriad other options available from custom gunsmiths. Like I said, FA's are beautifully made and I appreciate them for what they are but their options are limited and I'd rather spend the coin on a custom.

 

[bluetopper]

I have a FA 10" Field Grade 44 Mag. I saw it for sale used online on a gun forum just like this one several years back. Such a sweet shooter. After a few years I decided to put a scope on it so I could reap its full potential at 100 yards.

 

[Coal Dragger]

Probably so but you're sure paying a hell of a lot for precision you may not need. I have no shortage of factory Rugers that do 2"@50yds. An FA may do better than that but what would be the point?



A new Premier Grade is $2800, add $578 for an octagon barrel and another $120 for an action job plus $113 for ivory micarta. Add sales tax and you're pushing 4k. The FA, I might add, which can be anything you want as long as it's stainless steel.

By contrast, my .500JRH, which is almost finished, is built on a $500 base Ruger. Add $1600 for the conversion, $300 for an octagon barrel, $300 for grips and you're well under the cost of an FA. Of course, mine received a lot more work than that but you get the point. Part of that point is that FA doesn't make grips to fit your hand, a scratch built front sight and basepin from your drawing or myriad other options available from custom gunsmiths. Like I said, FA's are beautifully made and I appreciate them for what they are but their options are limited and I'd rather spend the coin on a custom.

Custom front sights for the FA are not hard to obtain, I got two made by a guy named Ken O'Neill a few years ago nice undercut patridge style front blades. I didn't realize FA had raised their prices so much, my local dealer stocks them and they are not asking anywhere nearb $2800 for new ones.

 

[MaxP]

I know Ken O'Neill and he offers replacement sights of differing heights. Craig is talking about entirely different sights not the replaceable blades. The price is what it is. If you order a Premier Grade revolver from FA, it will cost you more than $2,800. I bought mine used many years ago and it was a fair price IMO. But again, if I am to dump $3,000 - give or take, make mine a custom.

 

[Plastikosmd]

I only own one custom ruger. While Mr Clements did what he could with it, meh. I do have several custom S&W's and they are sweet. They are sa/da and more geared for competition. I like the FA as it is already set up for me and competing. Silhouette sights and scopes here so worrying about a front post is meaningless to me, to each his or her own, shoot what you enjoy.

 

[Stony]

I'm an old guy and my wrists don't handle handgun recoil that well anymore, but for someone younger or stronger, you just can't buy a better revolver in this country as far as I'm concerned. I have owned them in all of their barrel lengths, but only in 454 caliber. While the 4 3/4 inch is very hard to handle as far as recoil they all shoot spectacularly. As far as I am concerned, nobody in the business makes a better fit revolver with closer tolerances in the critical areas. I sort of remember something like barrel/cylinder alignment within .0005 of an inch...if my memory serves me right.

 

[CraigC]

I only own one custom ruger. While Mr Clements did what he could with it, meh.

I reckon how comparable it is depends on how extensive the modifications were. I have three guns Clements worked over but none of them are comparable to a full blown five shot conversion.

 

[Nathan Detroit]

Regarding the BFR revolvers, if you go over to the Cast Boolit Forum and so a search for 44man postings in the Wheelguns, Pistols & Handcannons section, you will find a lot of info on the capabilities of the BFRs. He is an exceptional shot and can extract all the accuracy that a gun is capable of. The BFRs are his gun of choice.

 

[MrBorland]

But again, if I am to dump $3,000 - give or take, make mine a custom.

I hear what you're saying, and there's also a lot of "pride of ownership" around a custom build, but my experience with custom bikes and guns has taught me that when the rubber meets the road (or the bullet leaves the barrel), "custom" doesn't necessarily mean "better". In some cases, depending on the builder, it definitely doesn't.

In my case, when I went custom, I did so solely because I couldn't find the bike/gun in the configuration I wanted. Otherwise, I wouldn't have a problem springing for a really good factory offering.

There aren't too many guns on my grail list, but a FA revolver has been on it for quite a while.

 

[Plastikosmd]

^ I agree
I own maybe 5 or so customs in the revolver variety. Fun to shoot and own. Will never get back what I have in them. That isn't the point. As far as the original question. Only you can decide what is "worth it." For me, every penny. I still want to add another 353 to the stable for scope purposes. Tho maybe I will consider their single shot. I have heard some good things. Not sure if I can use Mr. Taffin level loads in that single..

 

[MaxP]

I have never lost money on a custom. Typically, a custom (I'm talking about full custom revolvers now and not "customized" revolvers) from the top tier builders will not lose value. Not all builders are created equally as some of you have alluded to the fact that your customs may not shoot all that accurately. All of mine do, or they all would have gone back to the builder. There are customs and there are customs. They are definitely not all created equally.

 

[Plastikosmd]

Nice, they sound really special

 

[CraigC]

I hear what you're saying, and there's also a lot of "pride of ownership" around a custom build, but my experience with custom bikes and guns has taught me that when the rubber meets the road (or the bullet leaves the barrel), "custom" doesn't necessarily mean "better". In some cases, depending on the builder, it definitely doesn't.

That depends on how and why the gun is built and the parameters set forth by the customer. In this context, something that compares favorably to an FA, they are better in every way. This includes an oversized, scratch-built, linebored cylinder. An oversized bolt precisely fitted to the frame and cylinder notches. A blocked action, which is a bearing block attached inside the frame by screws or silver solder that braces the side of the bolt under recoil. A hand fitted action. A new barrel made from premium stock like Douglas, PacNor, Shilen, etc.. A custom or Belt Mt basepin that is perfectly fitted to the frame and cylinder. All of which results in a revolver that is just as accurate as an FA but it can be dressed in whatever package you want. Including custom barrel profiles such as octagons or ovates. Custom finishes from beaded stainless to color case hardening, rust or carbona blued steel. The exterior surfaces may be hand finished to perfection. The grip frame may be decked so that grips fit perfectly. The top strap can be converted to whatever configuration you like, such as flat top conversions of the Ruger or Colt variety, S&W sight conversions, or Old Model Single Six configurations. As I said before, my .500 has a front sight base and basepin that I designed myself. Not to even mentioned two sets of grips not only fitted perfectly to the grip frame but proportioned for my hands.

Will never get back what I have in them.

That might've been the case 20yrs ago but these days, nobody is losing money on customs built by known gunsmiths.

 

[CopperFouling]

Probably so but you're sure paying a hell of a lot for precision you may not need.

C'mon Craig, this is THR. Need hardly enters into the equation here.

By contrast, my .500JRH, which is almost finished, is built on a $500 base Ruger. Add $1600 for the conversion, $300 for an octagon barrel, $300 for grips and you're well under the cost of an FA. ... Like I said, FA's are beautifully made and I appreciate them for what they are but their options are limited and I'd rather spend the coin on a custom.

No doubt that you're getting exactly what you want with a custom build, but the sticker on the FA that I saw was $1800, not $2700.

I'm not knocking you or your choices because I respect your expertise. I know gunsmiths like Bowen work magic with Rugers. However, this thread wasn't about a comparison between FA and something else. I just wanted to know about people's experience with FA.