Friend got harassed by the police for OC

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chris in va

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Thought I'd pass this along.

Two nights ago I was to meet a friend and his GF at Denny's for a late dinner. I'm waiting for them at the table, his GF comes up and says the deputies are questioning him for his OC outside the place.

I jumped up and casually strolled onto the scene. There were 5 units in the parking lot dealing with a disturbance not related to this one, but two LEO's happened to see my friend walking up to the entrance and stopped him.

LEO 1 started asking questions then gave him the n'th degree why it was a bad idea to open carry in a "family restaurant" and "we'll just get called back for a man with a gun". LEO 2 ambles up and listens in on the conversation. I interjected at this point, stating it was perfectly legal to OC in Virginia. He didn't like that, pointing out his "15 years of law enforcement" experience on the matter.

My friend got fed up and decided to just leave it in my car (he forgot his CC permit, I have one). His GF was telling him, "just leave it in the car!" etc.:rolleyes:

Now I just found out today he overheard LEO 2 remarking to #1 that he needed to lay off the stiff arm and understand nothing is wrong with a man OC provided he's not doing anything illegal. I didn't hear this however.

Thing is, at that hour NO kids/families are patronizing that Denny's. Locals out to get a late snack mostly. They could care less. Oh, I was CC my Ruger the whole time.:p
 
what difference does it make if children are present???????????????/
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If there are children present, they could be coruppted in to thinking weapons, and by extension self reliance, are good and normal things. Imagine what would happen to society if a generation grew up like that!!
 
what difference does it make if children are present???????????????/
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Some folks ket really defensive over nothing when kids are involved, shouldnt make any diffrence but it does, I think we are all guilty of this as parents at one time or another involving guns or not, there is always something you will pass on but if your kids are there then its time to go else where.


To the op do you mind revealing what city this was. if it was in the south east or northern Va then I can see why you got the shaft for open cary, they arnt too receptive to it in those areas.
 
This is why I don't open carry here in VA. I just don't want the hassel of dealing with the police. Don't like them to much anyways. Why do I want to give them a reason to harrass me even more than they have in the past?
 
I think if you allow them to bully you into behaving in a way that is appropriate in their personal opinion, rather than according to the law, and your own opinion as a free man (or woman), then a bad thing has happened. It is unfortunate that this means that you might run into conflict with police, but it is worth it in my opinion. Emphasis on *my* opinion :)
 
Your friend should have pointed out that IF they got a "man with a gun" call from that Denny's, the officer could say he had already checked it out, and no law was being broken, which he already knew, or he would not have said it was a "bad idea." (Bad ideas are not against the law.) No need for him or anyone else to come back.
 
Still, in general be respectful to the Police Officer. Respond "yes sir" or "no sir" to questions. Always inquire: "What's this about?" Always ask "Am I free to leave?" if so, then by all means. There's no need to listen to a lecture from some overbearing police officer when no laws are being broken. There's always the need to be polite and respectful to them.
This is good for several reasons:
  • You cannot be viewed as being uncooperative
  • You cannot be cited for some BS trumped up charge
  • You can always use this behaviour to your advantage if you are ever in court.

ALWAYS get the officer's name and badge number, preferably on a business card, so you know exactly who you were talking to and for FOIA purposes later.
 
the Denny's in my area (NEPA) doesn't allow firearms, period. don't be surprised if you see a sign on the door saying so the next time you go. i don't care, myself; Denny's sucks, anyway.

i got the same "family restaurant" crap from local PD for eating at a local diner; meanwhile, the only kids that were present were miy own. everyone else there was 50+, it seems.

i understand not wanting to be hassled, but we pay the salaries of our local PDs; they work for us. i'm not going to be bullied into behaving a certain way because some guy in uniform doesn't like what i'm doing, especially if my behavior is perfectly legal. if you let them do that, what will you let them do next? tell you how to dress? let them pull you over for driving in the wrong neighborhood. avoiding the hassle isn't the answer; reminding LEOs of their limits is.
 
I interjected at this point, stating it was perfectly legal to OC in Virginia. He didn't like that, pointing out his "15 years of law enforcement" experience on the matter.
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You obviously do not watch the TV program COPS.

The LEOs do not like someone telling them how to do their job. The other half of that equation is immediately claiming "I've got my rights" (what you effectively did) is also a real turn off to the LEOs. Keep in mind that they were there on a "man with a gun" call, for starters, from what you said.

The time to establish the officers correctness or his incorrect action is NOT in the first thirty minutes. When you attempt to do that, you come across as the BG, or at least the BGs friend. In this case neither of you were the BG so why act like one? :confused:
 
15 years.. well then he should be well versed then and know it's legal

My first time seeing OC in VA was kinda strange. being an SC boy the only OC I ever saw was off duty Police with badge on belt next to firearm.
Talked with the old fella and he told me all about VA and his 1911 racegun he had on. Nice guy. Strange how a culture shock it was to see OC for the first time by a common serf. Some VA laws are pretty sweet. Though I'd never OC unless in a group that is, just cause of the age old tactical argument that never seems to get solved here... Still like the idea of a free man making choices for himself..
 
This is exactly the reason we need to open carry more where it is legal. So that the public and the police officers become more used to seeing a legal activity being carried out by someone other than a criminal.
 
I'd suggest that your friend contact VCDL and give Phil the details about this incident. When similar events have occurred in VA they have been very effective at getting the departments involved in giving all of the officers some remedial training wrt the open carry laws.
 
Am I free to go?
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Exactly. No law was broken. Your friend should have simply said "I appreciate the advice. Am I being detained or am I free to go?"

I'm strongly opposed to anyone in an authoritative position giving "advice" based on their "experience" when that "advice" is contrary to the law. Simply do your job and enforce the law, please. No need to go out of your way to hassle law abiding folk.

Also, If he is in the habit of dispensing "advice" that is contrary to law, he needs to be retrained. I don't care how many years of experience he has.
 
"Family restaurant" is code for mediocre food, mediocre service, and lots of undisciplined children.
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That's putting it kindly.:)

But I think of Denny's as a road-trip-refueling restaurant. It serves that purpose admirably, as a general rule.

All of that said, the only law I know of that changes when children are present is the speed limit near a school.
 
Officer, are you detaining me ( if yes see response A) or am I free to go ( if yes see response B)

A) I do not wish to make any statement or answer any questions W/ out my attorney present.

B) Thank you for your time officer. Have a nice day.
(Spoken over your shoulder as you leave the area)
 
I think once you reach the 15 year mark you are entitled to make up your own laws. :rolleyes:

If something like this dissuades you from carrying openly, I have to wonder what pressure wouldn't make you cast your rights off. Sad, very sad....
 
First of all, I would have walked away in the middle of the lecture.

But this is one of the reasons I don't open carry. I don't have time for this kind of crap.
 
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