Friend of mine got robbed at gunpoint tonight.

[misANTHrope]

(this took place in/around Charleston, SC)

I'll start from the top. I was hungry this afternoon and decided to call up my favorite all you can eat buffet partner. I message him on AIM and after a moment, I'm headed to his house. As soon as I get there, we go to CiCi's and get the buffet. On the way there, he was telling me how some of his female friends thought it would be cool if he got his nipples pierced. As we ate, he decided that's what he wanted to do tonight. Having nothing else to do, I figured I would go with him. Why not? What's the worst that could happen, right?

Well he looks up some piercing places on his interweb phone, and we have some candidates in mind. We go by the first place and decide it doesn't look good, so we moved on. The second place was inside the mall and actually wasn't a piercing studio, but just a place to buy rings, etc. We settled on a place called Factor Five and go inside.

After a few minutes, he decides that he wants to get both done. They go into the piercing room and I stay in the waiting area and read a book full of National Geographic's best pictures. I'm a photography fan, so naturally I was nose deep in this book.

After waiting for a few minutes, I hear the front door of the store open. I turn around because I was going to make a phone call anyway. Before I could get out of my seat, two black guys wearing long sleeved black shirts, pants, and facemasks rush in the door. Immediately the first one comes straight toward me, gun drawn, and orders me to the floor and tells me to give him my wallet and everything else I have.

[PAUSE]You know, I've never had a gun pointed at me before. It didn't even immediately register in my mind what was going on. I froze and thought "Is that a gun? What's going on? Holy s**t, that's a gun. That is a f**king gun being pointed at me. I better get to the ground and just cooperate.[/PAUSE]

Without argument, I go to the ground and give him my wallet. Of course it's in a buttoned pocket, so I'm fumbling to get it out. The whole time he's got the gun on me telling me to move faster, move faster. In my head I'm just hoping I don't end up with a bullet or two in me, so I try to stay as calm as I can and just give him what he wants.

At that time, the store employee comes out of the piercing room and asks them if they want the cash drawer. They say yes (Of course ) and he starts to try to open the cash drawer. The cash drawer is giving him problems and the two men order him to go faster. At that point the employee rips the drawer out of the counter and tosses it to them. They take the drawer and run out the front door.

As soon as they leave we ran to the back of the store and called the police. In under a minute there were several city police cars there. This is the first time I've ever been on the open end of a barrel, so of course I was a bit shaken up, but I gave my statement and I'm hoping these two pieces of s**t are caught.

I've cancelled my credit and debit cards, and now I've got to go get a new driver's license and everything else. Thank you very much, you two worthless scumbags. I hope like hell you are both caught.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Now I'm going to go pour myself a shot or two of Southern Comfort.

As a side note, this guy isn't ant-gun by any means, but to my knowledge he doesn't have a CCW or anything. (wonder if that might change now)

Now, on to the S&T stuff... the first thing that goes through my mind as I read this is how I might respond to such a situation and/or how I could be prepared to respond.

The first and most obvious point is the lack of situational awareness. Keeping your nose out of a magazine might make the wait more boring, but it also might save your wallet and/or your life. I don't know what the layout of the lobby area was, but sitting in a spot that would allow you to see out the door would be a good thing as well.

Even then, I'm not sure one could have reliably had enough advance warning to be able to fight back.

Thoughts?

 

[N3810F]

Once you're in that situation there's not much you can do even carrying. You'll probably get a lot of responses about situational awareness and such but nothing says that would have helped here either. Only thing that would have helped would be carrying a spare wallet!

Scary stuff.

 

[rbernie]

It didn't even immediately register in my mind what was going on. I froze and thought "Is that a gun? What's going on? Holy s**t, that's a gun. That is a f**king gun being pointed at me. I better get to the ground and just cooperate.

This is, to the best of my knowledge, the universal response. It certainly was mine, the two times that I was confronted with a deadly weapon.

And I gotta tell you, nothing made me madder afterwards than listening to all of the other guys around me tell me how they would have sprung into action like Chuck Norris, had only it been them and not me.

We had a thread here a little while back about how to train/condition the body to get thru this 'pause' faster and get into action, but the thread never really developed any momentum.

 

[louie19]

Two guns drawn on your none is really bad.

But... Massad Ayoob has been a proponent of having a backup of everything. To the point of having a duplicate wallet or at least a small money clip / roll. I never quite got why you'd want to do that, but this seems like a perfect situation. You give them the backup wallet while you keep your real wallet deeply hidden. They get some money, you hopefully don't get shot, but you still keep most of your stuff. Maybe you could even put in expired credit cards to make it more believable?

 

[WTBguns10kOK]

Too many unknowns from the story to know if drawing a gun could have been feasible. Did either gunman have their weapon drawn as they came through the door, as that'd be the only place to stop them, unless later, you could handle the one who came toward you while the other robbed someone else. Then you have a shootout and so on. Lose lose all around.

If they got done with me and didn't hurt anyone as they continued to rob the place, I'd not do anything, since I already lost control. But if I had a gun and they shot the clerk, then maybe go Steven Seagal on them.

 

[Carl Levitian]

There's nothing to be done in this case exept pray they don't shoot you if/when they find a gun on you and think you may be a cop. Trying to pull a gun when you're dumb enough to be cought totally by surprise will just get you and others killed. In a situation like this, just hand over your wallet and keep down.

 

[LKB3rd]

I agree that he had already lost control of the situation before he realized he was in it. Even if he had seen it coming, it's a tough call on how to handle it IF he had been armed and they both had weapons drawn. If he fires, he'd have to be ok with taking his chances on getting hit with some return fire as they (likely) ducked and ran. If they get the jump on him, I think that "comply and make your peace with god" is probably the only choice, unfortunately.

 

[CoRoMo]

I hate the idea of giving up in a life and death situation and allowing a deadly threat, present right in front of you, to control the situation. Especially if I'm armed and have a modicum of training. But what are you to do unless you're unbelievably proficient at the CLC-33 drill and can perform that type accuracy and speed in a real life and death situation. Few could.

 

[Cyclimus]

There's something to be said about acting a little bit crazy... it might just give you the edge should you need it. At the same time, it might get you shot. God, could you imagine, someone "panicking" curling up in a ball as they went to the ground "sobbing" and coming out of that stance drawn and firing... but I digress. In all, once you're on the business end of a gun at close range, your options are really really really limited. I'm all for defending yourself, but the variables change far too much when there are two BGs with guns. Ladies and gents, the house wins.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

Sounds VERY MUCH like an inside job to me. So I'd be pretty ticked off at that clerk.

When they get the drop on you like that (note to self -- avoid nipple piercing establishments), all you can do is wait until either they leave, they give you a chance to turn the tables, or they convince you they are going to kill you, in which case you may as well go down fighting.

Sometimes you get overwhelmed in a hurry, which generally happens with an inside job. For a classic example of this working on a professional surveillance guy, former cop and noted gangster, look up the report on the hit on Richard Cain at Rose's Sandwich Shop (a couple blocks from my old apartment, years ago).

I used to carry a duplicate wallet with old IDs, expired credit cards and a little cash. I never had to throw it down.

 

[Fred Fuller]

If you carry a dummy wallet, please don't put anything in it with your name on it! Save whatever plastic credit card size cards you come across, especially if they are embossed- they show up in credit card mail offers or other junk mail sometimes. Pick up business cards from here and there. Put in a wad of $1 bills.

Or just start using a 'flash roll' money clip, and put a $10 or $20 on the outside of a batch of ones, and give 'em that. But don't offer a lead back to you or your house- that's definitely bad tactics.

lpl

 

[misANTHrope]

Sounds VERY MUCH like an inside job to me. So I'd be pretty ticked off at that clerk.

Can you elaborate on this? It just sounds to me like a run-of-the-mill smash & grab... run in, scare down everyone you see, get the cash drawer, and run.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

Misanthrope: "Can you elaborate on this? It just sounds to me like a run-of-the-mill smash & grab... run in, scare down everyone you see, get the cash drawer, and run."

As to it being an inside robbery and not a "smash and grab" (those are rare):
How did the robbers (who "rushed in" -- exposing themselves to whomever and whatever happened to be inside) know there'd be anyone or anything there to rob, but not so many they'd have a fight or a standoff? The clerk texted them or their boss from his phone, that's how. Tattoo parlors aren't exactly known for attracting huge crowds waiting around for their turn, but they tend to do a high-end cash business, so it's a good target. They were after the cash drawer -- which the clerk explicitly offered to them before they even got to him or it, and which he fought physically to separate from the machine in order to hand it over to them. Note that the clerk wasn't roughed up or put down. Those are some of the specifics. Add to that that most retail robberies are inside jobs as a general thing. The robbers need to know when the cash drawer will have contents. Sometimes proprietors are looking for insurance proceeds, more often a retail clerk owes money to OC-connected figures and tips their crew to the job.

 

[uh-oh]

Misanthrope: "Can you elaborate on this? It just sounds to me like a run-of-the-mill smash & grab... run in, scare down everyone you see, get the cash drawer, and run."

As to it being an inside robbery and not a "smash and grab" (those are rare):
How did the robbers (who "rushed in" -- exposing themselves to whomever and whatever happened to be inside) know there'd be anyone or anything there to rob, but not so many they'd have a fight or a standoff? The clerk texted them or their boss from his phone, that's how. Tattoo parlors aren't exactly known for attracting huge crowds waiting around for their turn, but they tend to do a high-end cash business, so it's a good target. They were after the cash drawer -- which the clerk explicitly offered to them before they even got to him or it, and which he fought physically to separate from the machine in order to hand it over to them. Note that the clerk wasn't roughed up or put down. Those are some of the specifics. Add to that that most retail robberies are inside jobs as a general thing. The robbers need to know when the cash drawer will have contents. Sometimes proprietors are looking for insurance proceeds, more often a retail clerk owes money to OC-connected figures and tips their crew to the job.

I can vouch for this (anecdotally, of course). I used to work in a small music shop when I was in high school and the first few years of college. I guess there weren't too many applicants with decent credentials (I worked with one guy who was all right and even used to CCW) because I worked with three potheads and one crackhead, at different times. About a year after the crackhead got fired, he decided to smash the front glass door and steal the overnight cash. He was caught because his thumbprint was on one of he 20s he dropped while running out, and all he got was about $100.