house robbed today while everyone slept.
- Thread starter DennisRL
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OT for GGD. I'm moving this to S&T.
That is why when he bought the gun I sent him to a Private instructor. I dont think that the instructor told him anything I couldn't but sometimes hearing it from a professional instead of his son may have made it sink deeper.
Onward Allusion
Member
Dang. Sorry that it happen to your folks. Drill safety into your father's head. Provide him with crime statistics. Get your parents firearms training. Possibly have them install a security system, however, I don't know how much that would have helped if they leave their doors unlocked and garage door wide open. There comes a time for every child to become the parent in some situations, this may be one of them.
Not if they are in your house uninvited and you fear them to be a threat.
..Declaring that a person has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and the force is necessary to prevent death, great bodily harm or the commission of a forcible felony....THE persons residing in or visiting this state have a right to remain unmolested in ttheir homes or vehicles...
The person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of immeninet peril.....The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering or had unlawfully and forcibly entered into a dwelling, residence or occupied vehicle.
Even if they are back to you, but still in your "castle" you have reasonable right to assume they have entered with the intent and capibility to do harm and so long as you can say you had fear, you can shoot to kill!
FL and TX Castle Doctorines are very similar, and in some cases IDENTICAL....Look up the case of Joe Horn, he shot and killed two intruders ATTEMPTING to enter a dwelling. When he shot them, he went out into the yard, yelled "HEY HEY YOURE DEAD", and shot them dead, unarmed and in the back in his front yard. He was NOT charged or arrested, the police department citing the Castle Doctorine.
..Declaring that a person has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and the force is necessary to prevent death, great bodily harm or the commission of a forcible felony....THE persons residing in or visiting this state have a right to remain unmolested in ttheir homes or vehicles...
The person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of immeninet peril.....The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering or had unlawfully and forcibly entered into a dwelling, residence or occupied vehicle.
Even if they are back to you, but still in your "castle" you have reasonable right to assume they have entered with the intent and capibility to do harm and so long as you can say you had fear, you can shoot to kill!
FL and TX Castle Doctorines are very similar, and in some cases IDENTICAL....Look up the case of Joe Horn, he shot and killed two intruders ATTEMPTING to enter a dwelling. When he shot them, he went out into the yard, yelled "HEY HEY YOURE DEAD", and shot them dead, unarmed and in the back in his front yard. He was NOT charged or arrested, the police department citing the Castle Doctorine.
I never said it was sound advice, BUT I would argue that someone in your house illegally has the ability to do physical harm or kill you. AND watching them leave out the back door ONLY gives them the ability to turn around and attack, pull their firearm or weapon, or cause injury to others.
I would argue it is safest for the innocent people "THE VICTIMS" to eliminate the threat(s) as quickly as possible and get everyone to safety.
I would argue it is safest for the innocent people "THE VICTIMS" to eliminate the threat(s) as quickly as possible and get everyone to safety.
22-rimfire
Member
I would suggest that somehow they need to start locking their doors at night and physically verify that the garage door(s) are closed and locked every day, no exceptions. If they take a nap, check the doors first.
They won't use a burglar alarm system as they leave doors open and so forth. Hence waste of money.
Many people play the "what if" games with home defense. Blood on the carpet.. just one of those dumb things people think about. It might well be their blood on the carpet, not the intruder the next time.
Somehow you need to impress on them that they need to pay attention. They obviously don't with open doors and so forth.
There is nothing wrong with the attitude of giving the intruder "the stuff"... if it happens again. But the intruder may be after more than stuff. So, I don't assume anything.
Do they feel that their home was violated in any way? That is the way I felt after a similar event. Changed my life.
They won't use a burglar alarm system as they leave doors open and so forth. Hence waste of money.
Many people play the "what if" games with home defense. Blood on the carpet.. just one of those dumb things people think about. It might well be their blood on the carpet, not the intruder the next time.
Somehow you need to impress on them that they need to pay attention. They obviously don't with open doors and so forth.
There is nothing wrong with the attitude of giving the intruder "the stuff"... if it happens again. But the intruder may be after more than stuff. So, I don't assume anything.
Do they feel that their home was violated in any way? That is the way I felt after a similar event. Changed my life.
DAP90
Member
DennisRL said:
Really, you want to take his gun? You feel that’s an appropriate response because he has some strange ideas? What if somebody one day decides to take yours?
Seriously, if you want to help fix the locks and focus on convincing them to keep things locked up. Please don’t talk about shooting people in the back as they flee.
When our parents refuse to follow our good advice and continue to make a foolish decision, it's not a matter of our "allowing" them to do anything.
You can't control your parents. When they reject your advice, they're saying it's none of your business. Yes, my parents suffered much misfortune because they wouldn't heed my advice.
I repeat, (based upon their responses and your narrative they've essentially said) it's none of your business. I don't mean it in an unkind way.
Mike1234567
member
Install better doors with new locks for him. Convince him and your mom to at least use them. Get them a big dog. I don't know but it doesn't seem (to me) that your going to convince him to fire at an intruder.
I'm saying if he is NOT going to use the gun in defense and possibly kill someone OR he is going to draw up these wild fantasies that are so far from reality then he might as well NOT have it. Because a gun that will never be used is ONLY a threat to him and my mother and their pets. He might as well just buy a baseball bat. It might be more effective.
If someone came through your house, robbed your possessions, risked injury to yourself or your family and you had the castle doctorine protecting you, you would only use your firearm if that person was facing and advancing at you?
What if he had his back to you but had a gun in his hand? Would you call out to attempt to turn him around and give him the opportunity to fire at you or would you just shoot him in the back and put the Dbag were he belongs?
What if he had his back to you but had a gun in his hand? Would you call out to attempt to turn him around and give him the opportunity to fire at you or would you just shoot him in the back and put the Dbag were he belongs?
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
DennisRL,
Keep in mind, you're in ST&T now, not General. The rules are different here, best read them.
Statements like
I would argue it is safest for the innocent people "THE VICTIMS" to eliminate the threat(s) as quickly as possible
have gotten people banned here before, and they still will.
THIS IS THR AND WE DO NOT ADVOCATE MURDER OR THE SUGGESTION OF MURDER HERE.
As has already been stated on this thread earlier (Post #24), committing murder gets people put in jail, and no Castle Doctrine will absolve someone of murder.
Legitimate, legal self defense ends when THE THREAT ends. You claim to know so much more about this than your father, I'd suggest it might be past time you talked to a good criminal defense attorney in your jurisdiction about what self defense really means. An hour's worth of billable attorney time now might save you several hundred hours later... and worse.
Slow down a little and remember to breathe...
lpl
Keep in mind, you're in ST&T now, not General. The rules are different here, best read them.
Statements like
I would argue it is safest for the innocent people "THE VICTIMS" to eliminate the threat(s) as quickly as possible
have gotten people banned here before, and they still will.
THIS IS THR AND WE DO NOT ADVOCATE MURDER OR THE SUGGESTION OF MURDER HERE.
As has already been stated on this thread earlier (Post #24), committing murder gets people put in jail, and no Castle Doctrine will absolve someone of murder.
Legitimate, legal self defense ends when THE THREAT ends. You claim to know so much more about this than your father, I'd suggest it might be past time you talked to a good criminal defense attorney in your jurisdiction about what self defense really means. An hour's worth of billable attorney time now might save you several hundred hours later... and worse.
Slow down a little and remember to breathe...
lpl
Mike1234567
member
Breathe a little bit, Dennis. Just breathe.
We know this is extremely important. But something to keep in mind is...
1. You can only influence what "others" do.
2. You can only control what "you" do.
ETA: Lee, you beat me to the suggestion to "breathe". How do you type so darned fast?
We know this is extremely important. But something to keep in mind is...
1. You can only influence what "others" do.
2. You can only control what "you" do.
ETA: Lee, you beat me to the suggestion to "breathe". How do you type so darned fast?
Sorry if I offended. I am not advocating murdering anyone I am just discussing the reality of it if someone were to be in your house or a risk to your personal safety. I of course was under the assumption that killing someone in defense of yourself is NOT murder!
It has been taught to me by attorneys and NRA firearm instructors that a fleeing felon, even though not currently aggressing or attacking, still posses a real and crediblethreat, and the mere fact that they committed a felony and is still "...in the commission of a forcible felony" as the law is written, provides you with the ability to justify using force, to include deadly force to protect yourself and your family.
What if they are fleeing, but have a firearm pointed behind their shoulder...They have their back to you, but I dont think you could argue they are NOT a threat. What if they just have a gun in their hand but are running, but they hit the door and the meth kicks in and tells them, go back, grab the TV and sell it for more meth....Do I wait for him to turn around and start attacking before I can use deadly force?
It has been taught to me by attorneys and NRA firearm instructors that a fleeing felon, even though not currently aggressing or attacking, still posses a real and crediblethreat, and the mere fact that they committed a felony and is still "...in the commission of a forcible felony" as the law is written, provides you with the ability to justify using force, to include deadly force to protect yourself and your family.
What if they are fleeing, but have a firearm pointed behind their shoulder...They have their back to you, but I dont think you could argue they are NOT a threat. What if they just have a gun in their hand but are running, but they hit the door and the meth kicks in and tells them, go back, grab the TV and sell it for more meth....Do I wait for him to turn around and start attacking before I can use deadly force?
You know if you think its the neighbor's kid and you're fairly convinced he will come back you could try staying over a few nights to defend the homestead. Ideally they need to be more aware of their security and face the realities of life today but if they're unwilling to change it might be your only option to help. Course that may backfire if they gets away and comes back armed later. At the end of the day you can't control their actions, only your own. Good luck either way.
Yes sir, but if the intruder is still in your house, just because they are NOT faced towards you, does not mean the threat has ended...
I guess I'll shut up for fear of being banned, but I think FL Castle Doctorine is very easily interpreted as such. It was intended to be so easily read and understood and not legal jargon.
I guess I'll shut up for fear of being banned, but I think FL Castle Doctorine is very easily interpreted as such. It was intended to be so easily read and understood and not legal jargon.
BCC
Member
First off, it's great you're actively involved in your parents lives and I understand your concerns.
Right or wrong, I share your Dad's views on when to fire at an intruder. I suspect you'll find it impossible to alter his opinion. I don't think you should try.
A gun handling course and time with your Dad at a gun range should get him over his gun handling concerns. Obviously a gun should be loaded and ready to go when confronting an intruder.
Why don't you use this break in as an excuse to spring for a security system for your parents as a gift? For a few hundred bucks a year, you should be able to buy some peace of mind for you and your parents. Show your Mom how to arm it from the bedroom keypad.
Right or wrong, I share your Dad's views on when to fire at an intruder. I suspect you'll find it impossible to alter his opinion. I don't think you should try.
A gun handling course and time with your Dad at a gun range should get him over his gun handling concerns. Obviously a gun should be loaded and ready to go when confronting an intruder.
Why don't you use this break in as an excuse to spring for a security system for your parents as a gift? For a few hundred bucks a year, you should be able to buy some peace of mind for you and your parents. Show your Mom how to arm it from the bedroom keypad.
oneounceload
member
Again, incorrect - as has been mentioned by others -IN FLORIDA - when the threat ends, so does your right to use deadly force - if they are fleeing, their intent is to escape with their stolen goods.
Sounds like the door from the garage to the house needs a door closer and auto lock to gain entry....most garages here in FL also have sliding screen doors - painted white, they are hard to see through or determine if the main door is up; they can also be locked - while not perfect, they might deter an impromptu walk-in robber. Motion lights, yapper dogs, alarm company, thorny bushes under every window, etc., are all good things to help. Forcing a gun on someone who really doesn't sound like it is his thing is wrong. Maybe, in YOUR view, it is the best thing to do, but in his, it sure doesn't sound like it - so respect his opinion and wisdom - besides, wasp spray, OC, a golf club, etc., can all be equal deterrents in the right scenario
Im not forcing a gun on anyone. Matter of fact you might go to say I am removing a gun... He owns a gun but has poor ideas or perceptions on how / when / were to use it which I fear may give the intruder the time and ability to come after the gun and remove it from him and possibly use it against him.
I fear he will be hesitant and or unwilling to use a gun in self defense and thus he needs to decide real quick and either train / prepare for the worst case scenario (him having to use the gun) or give it up and perhaps use other means.
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
I guess I'll shut up for fear of being banned
No, don't shut up. Just don't go ranting about how anyone found in your house is going to die no matter what. That's not the kind of attitude 'good guys' endorse. It's not right, it's not moral and it's not legal.
And it isn't smart either, because if you're ever involved in a shooting (even a legitimate defensive shooting), bloodthirsty threats on the Internet can come back to haunt you. Prosecutors and their investigators have computers, too.
We want to help you help your parents, and shutting up is not going to accomplish that. But you have to be mature, reasonable and realistic about the advice you're offering them if they are to take it seriously.
lpl
No, don't shut up. Just don't go ranting about how anyone found in your house is going to die no matter what. That's not the kind of attitude 'good guys' endorse. It's not right, it's not moral and it's not legal.
And it isn't smart either, because if you're ever involved in a shooting (even a legitimate defensive shooting), bloodthirsty threats on the Internet can come back to haunt you. Prosecutors and their investigators have computers, too.
We want to help you help your parents, and shutting up is not going to accomplish that. But you have to be mature, reasonable and realistic about the advice you're offering them if they are to take it seriously.
lpl
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