From DFW to Amarillo, TX without a CHL...Can I Still Bring A Gun In Car & Hotel?

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DonNikmare

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Going on a weekend trip from Fort Worth to Amarillo, TX in a week. I do not yet have a CHL but was wondering if it was legal to bring along a gun as long as it stayed in the car or hotel.

I know there is a new law/bill which exclusively defines and will allow keeping a gun in a car during "travel" but it had not been voted on and finalized yet.

So I'm wondering if current laws allow it and under what conditions. If allowed, does it have to be in the trunk unloaded (no use taking it if that's the case), can it be inside the car and be loaded, etc.? Would it be legal to have it loaded in the hotel room, etc.?

I'm going to be getting a CHL but some recent things came up that dried up the $ I had for it so I'm having to wait :(

Nik
 
IANAL and internet advice is worth exactly what you pay for it...

That said, long gun or short gun?

If long gun, no problems. There are no state-wide prohibitions to simple possession of a long arm. Loaded or unloaded, in your car or hotel room - doesn't matter.

If short gun and you are "travelling" (DFW to Amarillo on a non-routine trip certainly seems like it would qualify) you should be good to go to carry loaded and concealed while on the actual travel portion of your trip. There are many "gotchas" - while you may beat the rap, you won't beat the ride if you come across a LEO who doesn't believe you... and it will be expensive to do so. It's best to not rely on the travelling clause. Plus, if you fail to beat the rap, you can kiss the possibility of a future CHL off for 10 years.

You will certainly be OK if you transport a handgun locked in a case, unloaded, outside of the normal passenger compartment of the vehicle. (In the trunk or behind the rear-most seat if you don't have a trunk.)

When you get to the hotel, load it up and leave it there. That's your "home" for the duration so no problem.

Transport it back to DFW the same way you brung it out.

If you don't have the $ for a Texas CHL, look into getting a Florida one. It's good in Texas (even for Texas residents), costs less and lasts longer. ('Course you won't get it by this weekend...) If you decide to go the FL route, I'd appreciate it if you still applied for and got a TX one when cash allows. We need all the CHLs we can get to get our headcount up. The more of us there are, the more the DPS and the Lege pay attention to us.

Good luck on your travels.

Jax
 
join the NRA, go to the range

with your NRA buddies and ask them how they did it when they didn't have a chl.
rant over.
If I wuz you-I would bring it along in a legal manner,call highway patrol
and ask them how.
but definetly bring it and keep it loaded in your hotel room,thats gotta be legal in TX,it is in CA!
 
Absolutely and totally irrelevant to your question - all I can say is - when I did that trip 2 years ago - went via Witchita Falls, Lubbock - on to Amarillo - all I could think was - how nice as I headed West toward NM - to see other than flat ground!!! :D
 
I made that trip about a month ago. One quick mention at this time- don't exceed the speed limit. TxDPS as well as the County officers are always running radar along 287 if you're taking that route. You might also consider staying in a hotel on the west side of Amarillo if you can.
The neighborhoods are better on that side.

I don't see much of a problem with what you propose. I'd be inclined to either put a handgun inside either my carried-in luggage or a separate case, such as a Plano or Doskocil-type plain plastic case rather than a pistol rug.

Folks out that way are used to seeing cased longarms. It's west Texas, for Pete's sake. Folks hunt out there.

Enjoy your trip. It's weird seeing so much horizon in every direction.

Regards,
Rabbit.
 
Texas court precedent holds that a traveler may have a handgun in the car.

A traveler has been defined by the courts as one who is out of his home county, overnight.

The strict interpretation is that when you arrive at your destination, the handgun must be put in the domicile wherein you reside for that duration. That can be a motel room as well as somebody's house.

There is no provision for you to get to the Amarillo city limits and stop off here, there and yonder on your way to that temporary domicile. Direct travel path is the strict interpretation.

Various news articles over the last 30 or 40 years have indicated that the knowledge of this court precedent varies among the LEO community. It's sometimes a case of, "You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride."

Art
 
All good advice! Thanks.

I was refering to a handgun. The only long gun I have is my CETME and I just don't want to lug that around plus it would probably fall under the 'evil assualt' type catagory for many folks.

I will take my little .38 special and keep that in the trunk and then hotel room. We'll stay at a LaQuinta Inn on the east side, in the airport's vicinity.


"One quick mention at this time- don't exceed the speed limit"

...I learned that the hard way. The only speeding ticket I ever got was on 287, around Amarillo, in '96. I passed through one of those 'don't blink or you miss it' towns and saw somebody pulled over on the way out. I thought to myself "There won't be another trooper out here for at least 100 miles." so I decided to make good time. Three to four minutes later I saw some underhood lights in my rearview mirror and got a sickening feeling in my stomach.

One time in '95 on 287, I actually saw a trooper drive exactly 55 miles an hour. He caused a little group of of cars to line up behind him and then pulled over the 1st frustrated driver who spead up to pass.

My gosh, is it ever flat!

Nik
 
In the trunk is not carrying so you are ok. Your hotel is your residence (for the night) and it's legal for you to have it in your residence so you're ok there too.

If it's in the cabin of the car and accessible to you or your passengers, that's carrying and you will need a CHL unless you're "travelling". "Travelling" is not well defined in the law and is a defense against prosecution only--meaning after your case comes to trial you can get the charges dismissed if you can prove you were "travelling".

TX penal code does not differentiate between loaded and unloaded handguns so you can leave it loaded if you can do so safely and are so inclined.
 
Somewhat contrary to Art, Texas "traveler" laws are not actually equal across the state. It is up to the local LEO who stops you and then by the local court (if it gets to that) to determine if you are actually a 'traveler.'

Part of the problem is whether or not those enforcing the law want to recognize your trip as traveling. Part of the problem with the overnight provision is that until you are getting to be X distance away from home that you cannot make it home without a night passing, then how do you justify that you are traveling?

Some of the problems with the concept of "traveling" is that on a trip, you are not always traveling. You are on your way to west Texas, but you stop and take a tour at the Rattlesnake Roundup museum (assuming it is there). While taking the tour, you are not traveling. You are at a destination, maybe not your final destination, and are not actually in transit.
 
just put your gun in your glove box so you can get it if you need it and come on.if you can own a gun no one will say a thing .
 
Thanks for the additional pointers. It'll end up in the trunk loaded or if we take our van in a locked pull out drawer under the passenger seat.

I know a security officer at work who used to be a state trooper so I'll ask him too if I see him between now and the trip.

Nik
 
just put your gun in your glove box so you can get it if you need it and come on.if you can own a gun no one will say a thing .
Click to expand...
Where do you keep your insurance card? And what's the first thing the officer will ask you for if you get stopped?

"Uh, officer, I'm going to get that insurance card out of the glove box now... Pay no attention to the gun next to it. ...Um...no, I don't have permit--why do you ask?"
 
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...I learned that the hard way. The only speeding ticket I ever got was on 287, around Amarillo, in '96. I passed through one of those 'don't blink or you miss it' towns and saw somebody pulled over on the way out. I thought to myself "There won't be another trooper out here for at least 100 miles." so I decided to make good time. Three to four minutes later I saw some underhood lights in my rearview mirror and got a sickening feeling in my stomach.
Click to expand...

'Bout 60 miles on the DFW side of Amarillo? Somewhere about a little town called Clarendon?

Texas law is vague on handguns. It says that you may not carry a handgun on or about your person, but then states that this does not apply when you are travelling.

Each county court in Texas has it's own definition of what 'travelling' is, and the various definitions don't necessarily coincide.

"Travelling" is not well defined in the law and is a defense against prosecution only--meaning after your case comes to trial you can get the charges dismissed if you can prove you were "travelling".
Click to expand...

Nope, we got that changed. Texas Penal Code 46.15 states that 46.02 (Unlawful Carrying Weapons) and 46.03 (Places Weapons Prohibited) "do not apply" to a person who "is travelling."

Texas Penal Code 46 is found here:
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.010.00.000046.00.htm#46.15.00

LawDog
 
'Bout 60 miles on the DFW side of Amarillo? Somewhere about a little town called Clarendon?
Click to expand...

Don't recall the exact location but I know it was on 287 either on the south or north side of Amarillo but definately before Hartley. It was around end of May beginning of June '96. I was in a green W Jetta with my host family Mom and going either 81 or 86 miles per hour, not exactly sure which one it was. Could have been you or one of your collegues, huh?

Thanks for the link. It is now bookmarked.

Nik
 
traveling in texas

1. Step one - buy strap-on zippered pouch that atached to driver's sun visor.
2. Insert insurance, registration, inspection sticker receipt into zippered pocket.
3. Put loaded gun in glove box.
4. If making stop in route, lock glove box when away from vehicle.
5. If pulled over for traffic stop, do not open glove box - no reason to now.
6. If asked if they can search your vehicle, say"Not without a warrant". AND STICK TO IT!

I drove to Amarillo and Killeen Texas (way before CCW) all the time with a loaded 1911 in the glove box. It helps immensly if you have luggage in the car - I NEVER had a problem. Remember, a right unused is soon lost. BTW, I NEEDED that 1911 once or twice - once while still driving. Amazing what problems can be avoided when you take the gun out and put it on the dashboard - suddenly, running you off the road isn't such a good idea....
 
LOL, I guess I tend to 'speed' into the future when it's this late and I'm tired :) I changed it. Thanks for pointing it out.

Man, I read through the link and it seems to say it's illigal for CHL holders to carry "on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship."
One of the main reasons I will get a CHL is that I lost one of my best friends in the Wedgwood church shooting and could have been there myself that night.

Am I reading it wrong? It's # 6 under "§ 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE" "§ 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE"

On second thought this is worth its own thread...

Nik
 
The glove box idea is certainly atractive but I really do not want to risk it as "Each county court in Texas has it's own definition of what 'travelling' is, and the various definitions don't necessarily coincide."

On second thought, if we take the van it seems it will still be better if the gun is in the back behind the last seat as opposed to in the passenger seat's compartment as that might be considered "about" my person even if it is locked.

Nik
 
why take a gun if you are going to lock it away? if you need it you need it at hand. I have had a gun in my glove box every time I leave home for over 50 years.I go ccw now.you will just have to deside if you wont to be on these l o n g hiways unarmed or take the very small chance of some one saying something. good luck. J.C.
 
For those who think "travelling" is subject to county court interpretation: Have you actually read the court decisions in Vernon's Annotated Civil Statutes (V.A.C.S.) of Texas?

I have. They are numerous, and include State District Court decisions--which are well above the county level.

As a generality: If your handgun is unloaded and in the trunk of a vehicle, and the ammunition is secured elsewhere in some manner. the common presumption is that you don't have nefarious ideas in mind. This doesn't mean one can avoid arrest by some over-zealous LEO, but it has been a successful defense in court.

I've done a fair amount of "enthusiastic" travel around the great state of Texas, with the occasional conversation with one of the state's Finest. Never, ever, have I been asked about any firearm of whatever sort, even when enroute to or from a hunting trip.

Well, okay, come to think of it, an LEO commented one time, "Nice buck. Whadja use?" "'06." "Yeah, me too. Hold it down a bit, okay?"

By and large, if you stay within around 5mph of the speed limit, your life will be plumb uneventful. :)

Art
 
The Texas statute is here.
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.010.00.000046.00.htm#46.15.00

Some excellent commentary here.

http://www.packing.org/news/article.jsp/171

You will certainly be OK if you transport a handgun locked in a case, unloaded, outside of the normal passenger compartment of the vehicle.
Click to expand...

Unnecessary as far as the law is concerned. Also, transporting the weapon this way renders it useless in the event that it is needed.

"Travelling" is not well defined in the law and is a defense against prosecution only--meaning after your case comes to trial you can get the charges dismissed if you can prove you were "travelling".
Click to expand...

The law was changed in 1997. It is no longer an affirmative defense to prosecution. The new law states that § 46.02. (UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS) simply does not apply if the actor is "traveling." While the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals has noted the journey must generally be overnight, the defense is not restricted to overnight stays. However, if the journey is so short there is no real journey, then one is not a traveler. In general, one who goes from a point in one county to a point in another is a “traveler†within the meaning of the law. Ballard v. State, 167 S.W. 340.

Oddly enough, if one is carrying a handgun pursuant to § 46.15(b)(3) while "traveling," then the law does NOT require that the handgun be concealed. In practical terms, however, carrying an unconcealed handgun is an invitation to get stopped by the police, so carry it concealed.

The officers and prosecutors have substantial discretion in interpreting probable cause for an arrest for violating § 46.02. In other words, you can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride. Whether the officer on the scene arrests you or not will depend on a number of factors such as who you are, your attitude, the county that you get stopped in, etc.

For example, if the officer finds the gun and then you flunk the attitude test, guess where you are going. Likewise, let's say that you are young, black, wear baggy gangish clothing, and you get stopped by Officer Good O'Boy. You get the picture.
 
Did I understand that right? If you are traveling you can carry concealed without a permit??? :what:

And what was that about a Florida permit earlier, is it that easy to get from out of state?
 
Did I understand that right? If you are traveling you can carry concealed without a permit???
Click to expand...

Legal? Yes. Wise? No.

In Texas it is technically legal to walk down the street with a WASR-10 (provided that you are not a felon, etc.). If memory serves, it is unlawful to display a firearm in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm, so use common sense. It's not terribly uncommon to see guys driving around in rural areas with rifles or shotguns in the gun racks of their pickup trucks (especially during hunting season), but if you put an AR-15 or AK clone in the back windowof your truck anddrive around, say, Houston or Austin, youcan pretty much expect to be stopped by the PD.

http://www.burger.com/gunindex.htm.

The site is maintained by a Texas lawyer/gun owner.
 
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